Opinions/help For A Family Situation

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1341803402' post='2453774']
Who says that by refusing to giving legitimacy to a wrong arrangement one is being hateful? That type of statement is straight out of the secular playbook. Please don't be duped by the secular anti-Christian phrasebook.
[/quote]

Who are you to decide ANYONE is not worthy of human dignity and common courtesy?

You are not giving legitimacy to anything by being a LOVING christian to another human being ...You are saying only people I approve of in relationships I approve of are worthy enough for me to speak to.. Where the hell is THAT in the Scripture?
You can love the sinner and hate the sin. You can disapprove of behavior but still love the person doing it, because that is what Christ did.
You seriously need to rethink your stance on who is worthy of a good morning.

[Winchester]

What if a straight dude wore a dress on a date with a gay woman? I mean an attractive one, not the ones with mullets.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Winchester

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1341803016' post='2453771']means that somewhere there are two men that cannot find wives is charity enough for me.
[/quote]
And now we see whence this strange bitterness springs.

[Winchester]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1341847909' post='2453911']
And now we see whence this strange bitterness springs.
[/quote]
I think it's probably not the existence of gay women, but the presence of WoW and absence of personality that's the real problem.

[BG45]

I know I'm late to the thread, but I think you're acting well and with Christ-like demeanor (though from your posts since you've been on PM, I'd expect nothing else!) I think it's totally understandable that you should be able to express to your mother that she isn't doing things the right way and that you don't want your kids thinking it's okay, but I think the way you are going about it is wonderful and done in full love and charity.

The worst thing I think you could do was said to an ex-Mormon whose story I was reading and his parents told him, "The church is more important to us than you are". But the way that you responding to her shows that you are holding to the teachings of the Church, but also that you love her deeply and want her to be happy, even if you disagree with the lifestyle she's choosing to lead. I agree with Papist's idea of RCIA for her gentleman friend, because it does sound like he really wants to know more about your mother's faith (and who knows, it may rekindle in her a desire about it as well) and if he finds a good RCIA course, he'll definitely learn a ton and maybe even decide to cross the Tiber.

You have my prayers, but I think there's not a single thing wrong with what you've been doing so far. You set boundries, you've made it absolutely clear you still love her even if you disagree with what she's doing, and I'm assuming you show the same level of care for her offline that you have been in this thread (despite some rather vicious responses in it, which I'll admit I skimmed after the first few).

[MissyP89]

OK, guys, entertain an amateur question: how do you make it clear that you don't approve of someone's lifestyle without them hating you or looking like a jerk? Navigating situations like these has always been tough for me. The one time I had such a conversation, the person was extremely hurt and has not attended Mass since. I'm still haunted by that and tend to just avoid similar talks with other friends/family.

So what would you say to Cherie's parents?

[Papist]

[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1341852396' post='2453935']
OK, guys, entertain an amateur question: how do you make it clear that you don't approve of someone's lifestyle without them hating you or looking like a jerk? Navigating situations like these has always been tough for me. The one time I had such a conversation, the person was extremely hurt and has not attended Mass since. I'm still haunted by that and tend to just avoid similar talks with other friends/family.

So what would you say to Cherie's parents?
[/quote]

I can't duck the truth when talking to such people. B/c of this I risk them hating me and believing I am a jerk. I have no control over that. Been there, done that! What I can control is my love for them, which I am called to do through Christ.

[MissyP89]

I definitely get that -- not caring what people think.

But that still begs the question: what do you say? How do you put it to them? Is it a "if you don't change this behavior you're going to hell" conversation, or something different?

[Papist]

[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1341852396' post='2453935']
OK, guys, entertain an amateur question: how do you make it clear that you don't approve of someone's lifestyle without them hating you or looking like a jerk? Navigating situations like these has always been tough for me. The one time I had such a conversation, the person was extremely hurt and has not attended Mass since. I'm still haunted by that and tend to just avoid similar talks with other friends/family.

So what would you say to Cherie's parents?
[/quote]

Sorry. I did not answer your question. Are you asking what would I say to my mom or dad, if this was my situation? Or if I was an unbiased third party, like I am. Either way, I would say much of what Cherie did. Only thing I probably would add would be. That you may not agree with my actions, and I may even not want to do them, but I must for the love of Christ and His Church. I will not betray Christ and my faith for anyone.

[Lil Red]

i admit, i'm almost never the first to bring up conversations like that.

if it does come up, i try to first frame it in terms of the benefits of thinking with the Church (without bringing up Church teaching): the emotional, physical, and mental benefits. then, if i think they are open, i will talk about what the Church teaches. and always praying for the Holy Spirit to guide my words, so that i may be the mouthpiece of God.

[MissyP89]

I was asking what you would say if it were your parents. But you answered me better this time. Thanks.

Other perspectives welcome.

Cherie, you're wonderful. Charity and love will always prevail in situations like these.

[Papist]

Believe it or not, I pray for the opportunity to have such conversations, b/c it is much more effective if I can speak my mind if am not the one to bring up the conversation.
And absolutely pray to the Holy Spirit to guide yours words.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1341854660' post='2453948']
I definitely get that -- not caring what people think.

But that still begs the question: what do you say? How do you put it to them? Is it a "if you don't change this behavior you're going to hell" conversation, or something different?
[/quote]
I think it really depends on the person/situation. If you're really close to someone, and you know that they're the sort of people who need things laid out bluntly, "If you don't knock it off, you could go to hell" could be an effective method. If you know that bluntness will push them away, then a different approach is obviously necessary. I also think that no matter how the conversation happens, beating them over the head with it later will not do any good (and I think this is where quite a few people fail. "Well, I told him what I think/what the Church teaches, but he's still doing it anyway. I must tell him again, more forcefully!"). Once you've laid your thoughts out on the table, and they are clear with where you stand, unless they're somehow asking you to compromise your position, there is no reason to keep re-hashing things. Once you've made your position known, you're not responsible for their decisions. You're job after that is to make sure they get the other part of it--the part where you love them, anyway.

[franciscanheart]

Side note: I personally connect more with "you are jeopardizing your relationship with God and your eternal salvation" than with "you're going to go to Hell" in ANY situation.

[beatitude]

Any correction that you offer to somebody must stem from your love of that person. Loving a person means knowing them well enough to consider the sort of approach that is best for them.

If you can't think of an approach that you know to be good, then you don't know them well enough to help them. Perhaps you are not the right person to do this. Pray that they encounter the person who is.

[tinytherese]

I'm no expert, but might catechetical documents such as Adult Catechesis in the Christian Community, On Evangelization in the Modern World by Pope Paul VI, To Teach as Jesus Did, On Catechesis in Our Time, or the General Catechetical Directory have advice on how to handle such situations? I've also read part of Patrick Madrid's book Search and Rescue and so far it hasn't mentioned cutting a family member out of one's life for their life-style.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1341832173' post='2453843']
Please help me here. How is it our Christian obligation to severe the relationship with the mother in this situation? And that by not doing so is giving legitimacy to the sin? Keep in mind, we are not talking about a college friend. We are talking about a mother.



No. That statement is straight out of the Bible. I believe turning your back on your mother is not only un-Christian, but is the easy and cowardly way out. How did Christ treat the prostitutes and tax collectors, which he was ridiculed for doing?
[/quote]
[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1341835844' post='2453856']
It is not that your point is not understood. The fact this is a mother/daughter relationship here is important.


"Honor your father and your mother, that you may have a long life in the land the LORD your God is giving you" --Exodus 20:12
"Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy" --Matthew 5:7
[/quote]

Except that I never said that she should sever the relationship with her mother...

[Papist]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1341880579' post='2454154']
Except that I never said that she should sever the relationship with her mother...
[/quote]

I failed to understand you any other way. Sorry.

[add]

You will not have your mom forever, but forever you will only have one mom – unknown

[ImageTrinity]

I think you and your husband have taken exactly the right angle in this situation. Since I know you in person, I can also say I am POSITIVE you are treating your mom with perfect sweetness and charity! I also have relatives who make bad decisions because they are psychologically unstable. All you can do is make it clear that you disagree, then love them and show them God's mercy.

As far as your FIL goes, it's up to your husband to defend the decision you made together as a married couple. Likewise, continuing to communicate with your mom is more your burden.

"Fight all error, but do it with good humor, patience, kindness, and love. Harshness will damage your own soul and spoil the best cause." St. John of Kanty