Winchester Posted November 1, 2012 Posted November 1, 2012 Like I pointed out, his position is hard to discern, but you keep going with the latest quote, instead of his history.
dUSt Posted November 1, 2012 Author Posted November 1, 2012 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1351793250' post='2502087'] Like I pointed out, his position is hard to discern, but you keep going with the latest quote, instead of his history. [/quote] You deny that it is possible for someone to become pro-life after they were pro-choice? That's insane. #Exit-Fantasy-Land
dUSt Posted November 1, 2012 Author Posted November 1, 2012 [quote name='jaime' timestamp='1351793177' post='2502086'] Stop calling me a liar. [/quote] When you say his stance is "health of the mother" when you know perfectly well that his official stance is "life of the mother", you are lying. I'm just keeping it real.
Winchester Posted November 1, 2012 Posted November 1, 2012 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1351793546' post='2502090'] You deny that it is possible for someone to become pro-life after they were pro-choice? That's insane. #Exit-Fantasy-Land [/quote] Word vs. Action. This is not rocket surgery. Just read the words. You judge him by his recent words. I will judge him by his actions. At the very least, you should admit he's suspect, but the better hope.
eagle_eye222001 Posted November 1, 2012 Posted November 1, 2012 Romney believes mothers with health issues have a choice. Romney believes women raped have a choice. Romney believes women in incest relations have a choice. That is pro-choice. To even drop the words "pro-life" is to pile mud and distort the truth. Romney is pro-choice. Granted, he is on a spectrum of pro-choice.....but he is NOT on a spectrum of Pro-life. Then you are just playing euphemistic word games.
dUSt Posted November 1, 2012 Author Posted November 1, 2012 [quote name='eagle_eye222001' timestamp='1351793983' post='2502101'] Romney believes mothers with health issues have a choice. Romney believes women raped have a choice. Romney believes women in incest relations have a choice. That is pro-choice. To even drop the words "pro-life" is to pile mud and distort the truth. Romney is pro-choice. Granted, he is on a spectrum of pro-choice.....but he is NOT on a spectrum of Pro-life. Then you are just playing euphemistic word games. [/quote] To say Romney is "pro-choice" is simply dishonest rhetoric. He is not perfectly pro-life. He is not in line with Catholic teaching on the matter. But, he is running against the most pro-abortion president in history. Obama is pro-choice. To equate Romney to Obama by also calling him pro-choice is just having politically dishonest fun with words. In the popular sense of the word, Romney is pro-life. He is endorsed by the National Right to Life Committee. Stop trying to mislead people.
eagle_eye222001 Posted November 1, 2012 Posted November 1, 2012 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1351795675' post='2502111'] To say Romney is "pro-choice" is simply dishonest rhetoric. He is not perfectly pro-life. He is not in line with Catholic teaching on the matter. But, he is running against the most pro-abortion president in history. Obama is pro-choice. To equate Romney to Obama by also calling him pro-choice is just having politically dishonest fun with words. In the popular sense of the word, Romney is pro-life. He is endorsed by the National Right to Life Committee. Stop trying to mislead people. [/quote] There is a spectrum of pro-choice that was pointed out eions ago by Jaime. I don't care what word-use is popular. I use what is accurate and truthful. The NRLC like several other organizations have sold themselves out to Romney. That's their call. I don't blindly follow endorsements. It has been argued several times successfully on this phorum that it is a lie to pretend Romney is "pro-life" (Hitler vs. Stalin scenario). I am not misleading anyone. I am making people aware of the real Mitt Romney.
dUSt Posted November 1, 2012 Author Posted November 1, 2012 [quote name='eagle_eye222001' timestamp='1351796182' post='2502113'] I don't care what word-use is popular. I use what is accurate and truthful. I am not misleading anyone. I am making people aware of the real Mitt Romney. [/quote] "Pro-life" is not a word defined in the dictionary. It is a socially defined label. I understand you don't care about popular words, but if you are truly concerned with being "accurate and truthful", leave the "pro-life" and "pro-choice" labels out of your mouth all together, because like it or not, they do have a popular meaning that is not defined by AP Stylebook experts you and jaime.
KnightofChrist Posted November 1, 2012 Posted November 1, 2012 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1351793643' post='2502091'] When you say his stance is "health of the mother" when you know perfectly well that his official stance is "life of the mother", you are lying. I'm just keeping it real. [/quote] Jaime and I have rarely agreed on anything and perhaps even more rarely got along with one another. But he is still our brother in Christ, thus I will defend him from your personal attack. Jaime and others has every right not to trust Romney to be pro-life. Mitt has given us good reason not to trust him. Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2gwbGnti5A
dUSt Posted November 1, 2012 Author Posted November 1, 2012 [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1351796819' post='2502118'] Jaime and I have rarely agreed on anything and perhaps even more rarely got along with one another. But he is still our brother in Christ, thus I will defend him from your personal attack. Jaime and others has every right not to trust Romney to be pro-life. Mitt has given us good reason not to trust him. [/quote] Wow. You present a spliced up out-of-context video spanning decades as your reason for not trusting him? Everyone that has been paying any attention knows that Romney use to be pro-choice. He changed his position. It is possible for a pro-choice person to become pro-life. That is what we all fight and hope for. So now that it actually has happened to someone in politics they get bashed for it. Regardless, it isn't about trust. It is about jaime being dishonest when presenting Romney's stance as "health of the mother" when his stance is actually "life of the mother".
KnightofChrist Posted November 1, 2012 Posted November 1, 2012 Yes I have very much paid attention to his many flip flops and conversions back and forth from claiming to be pro-choice to being pro-lfe to being pro-choice to being pro-life etc etc... Jaime isn't being dishonest. Romney has been many times. I simply do not trust his current official position and Mitt has given me and others every reason not to.
Aloysius Posted November 1, 2012 Posted November 1, 2012 (edited) The reason we believe he is for a health of the mother exemption is because he said health of the mother recently. His spokesperson tried to clean up that mess and specify that he does not officially condone a health of the mother exemption. I think I went over this with you about 90,000 or 100,000 times, man. It all comes down to whether you believe his own words, or his spokesperson cleaning up after those words because pro-life groups specifically said that they would rescind their endorsement of him if he really meant what he said. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57501172/romney-my-views-on-abortion-rights-are-clear-/ [url="http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/romney-im-in-favor-of-legal-abortion-for-health-and-life-of-mother-rape-inc"]http://www.lifesiten...mother-rape-inc[/url] and then: [url="http://www.lifenews.com/2012/08/31/romney-opposes-pro-abortion-health-of-the-mother-exception/"]http://www.lifenews....ther-exception/[/url] Notice when he says it's been settled for some time in the courts, it sounds pretty much like the old clip where he says Roe v Wade is settled law and should be preserved... There is every reason to distrust what degree of pro-choice he is. Like Jaime said, there is NO reason to believe he is "pro-life" in the proper sense of the word, but there is definite room for debate as to just how pro-choice he really is, much of it hinging upon whether he actually meant to say "health" of the mother like he did. His spokesperson said he didn't mean to include that; notice that the woman from the pro-life group who was assured of this specifically said that if he had meant to say that, they would have rescinded their endorsement of him... meaning they would not have endorsed him over Obama, it was pretty high stakes. Edited November 1, 2012 by Aloysius
dUSt Posted November 1, 2012 Author Posted November 1, 2012 [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1351797940' post='2502124'] Jaime isn't being dishonest. Romney has been many times. I simply do not trust his current official position and Mitt has given me and others every reason not to. [/quote] Essentially his first "decision" as potential president, picking one of the most pro-life people he could have possibly chosen as his VP was not a good enough reason to trust his pro-life intentions. You got trust issues man.
Vincent Vega Posted November 1, 2012 Posted November 1, 2012 Maybe Obama's not as cunning as he seems - looks he could have gotten a big chunk of the pro-life vote just by a little lip service. That's what Romney did, after all.
dUSt Posted November 1, 2012 Author Posted November 1, 2012 [quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1351798541' post='2502128'] His spokesperson said he didn't mean to include that; notice that the woman from the pro-life group who was assured of this specifically said that if he had meant to say that, they would have rescinded their endorsement of him.. [/quote] OK, so we are clear. He did not mean to say that. He meant to say this, oh wait, he [b]did[/b] say this: [i]"I am pro-life and believe that abortion should be limited to only instances of rape, incest, or to save the life of the mother. I support the reversal of Roe vs. Wade, because it is bad law and bad medicine."[/i] ​Seriously folks, your arguments would be more compelling if you did not resort to fun with wordplay and actually used legitimate stances. As it is, you are just coming off as disgruntled people with hidden agendas.
KnightofChrist Posted November 1, 2012 Posted November 1, 2012 Paul Ryan sold out when he backed Romney. I do not trust Romney, if he thought appearing pro-choice would increase his chances of getting elected he'd flip. If he thought the same about appearing to be pro-life he'd flop. This is his record, he will betray you, he will be the man he is, the man that will say whatever he can to get elected.
dUSt Posted November 1, 2012 Author Posted November 1, 2012 [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1351799076' post='2502135'] Paul Ryan sold out when he backed Romney. I do not trust Romney, if he thought appearing pro-choice would increase his chances of getting elected he'd flip. If he thought the same about appearing to be pro-life he'd flop. This is his record, he will betray you, he will be the man he is, the man that will say whatever he can to get elected. [/quote] We've established you don't trust Romney. Thanks. Please feel free to continue participating if you'd like to address any of his official stances.
KnightofChrist Posted November 1, 2012 Posted November 1, 2012 (edited) [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1351799241' post='2502136'] We've established you don't trust Romney. Thanks. Please feel free to continue participating if you'd like to address any of his official stances. [/quote] Sure but which offical positions? The ones from last week, this week, or next week? Or the numerous ones that differ depending upon which crowd he's speaking to. Edited November 1, 2012 by KnightofChrist
dUSt Posted November 1, 2012 Author Posted November 1, 2012 [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1351800601' post='2502146'] Sure but which offical positions? The ones from last week, this week, or next week? Or the numerous ones that differ depending upon which crowd he's speaking to. [/quote] The ones on his website from this week.
KnightofChrist Posted November 1, 2012 Posted November 1, 2012 I'm just going to vote for the Pope and be done with it.
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