Forget The President, What About The Marijuana?

[dUSt]

Up for "legalization" is a few states today. Some for medical purposes, others just straight up recreational use.

[s]Discuss[/s]. Debate.

[Nihil Obstat]

I see no good reason that marijuana should not be legalized, including for recreational use.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1352241747' post='2505319']
I see no good reason that marijuana should not be legalized, including for recreational use.
[/quote]
In Australia that would be fine as long as those who use it, especially smoke it. Pay a higher medicare levy than non users to cover their increased need for health care. Exception would be those who use for pain relief.

[missionseeker]

If you saw hasan's post on FB, then you know what I think


In all seriousness, though I cannot support marijauna's illegality. As a farmer's daughter, I find the effect it's legalization would have on hemp quite intriguing.

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1352242404' post='2505326']
In Australia that would be fine as long as those who use it, especially smoke it. Pay a higher medicare levy than non users to cover their increased need for health care. Exception would be those who use for pain relief.
[/quote]

What about personal responsibility for your own healthcare?

So the state will determine what is healthy for you and what is not and what is a justified reason and what is not?

[missionseeker]

Tobacco users have way more health problems than pot smokers.

[Nihil Obstat]

Leave that up to insurance companies in a freed market.

[Cherie]

Me no like.

It's not a big issue for me, I guess, but it IS for potheads and so that's probably the main reason why I don't want it legal. Me no like potheads.

And I say that lovingly because my brother is one.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' timestamp='1352244382' post='2505342']
What about personal responsibility for your own healthcare?

So the state will determine what is healthy for you and what is not and what is a justified reason and what is not?
[/quote]
[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1352246034' post='2505353']
Leave that up to insurance companies in a freed market.
[/quote]
Medicare is a form of health insurance. Insurance companies base their fees on risk which is only fair. The fact that it is enforced is another issue.

[quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1352245523' post='2505347']
Tobacco users have way more health problems than pot smokers.
[/quote]
Most users of Marijuana smoke it. In Australia you will not get certain operations such as lung transplants if you are a smoker. Doctors devote more time to people who do not substance abuse and fair enough. If a person wishes to smoke or use Mj in spite of health warnings then that is their own business. but I don't want to subsidise them nor do I want to have difficulty getting health care in an underfunded system made worse by self abusers.

Edited November 7, 2012 by Mark of the Cross

[Aloysius]

#1 on the Federal level, ALL of the drug laws are completely 100% unconstitutional. no exceptions. There was a time in this country when we recognized we needed a constitutional amendment for prohibition, and then another one to rescind that prohibition because we realized it was a bad idea.

But anyway, these are state-level referendums which is another story, the state has every right to decide to legalize it or not. Personally I think it should be legal for the same reason St. Thomas Aquinas thought that prostitution should be legal; when they're not legal, they spew out all sorts of evil and filth into society. when they're legal, they are a free choice of a very particular individualistic sin (assuming recreational marijuana use is sinful, that's a whole other debate that would bring all sorts of fun comparisons with alcohol and wild statements trying to differentiate the two any way we can, but certainly most drugs that are illegal now would be sins, marijuana I think is a debatable area and I'm not sure where I come down on it honestly). there's a very real way in which things like this being legal but dealt with actually represents a more healthy atmosphere for society than legal repression of them does, and that goes for prostitution too but that's an entirely other can of Thomistic worms we probably should avoid. spiritual, medical, and psychological approaches to these problems like drugs are much better than legal approaches, legal approaches only make things worse for things like this.

all that said, marijuana legalization is not a very high priority issue for me, except for two aspects of it: industrial hemp should be allowed, and non-violent drug offenders should not be attacked violently by the state and imprisoned.

[sixpence]

what states be those?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1352249140' post='2505368']


Medicare is a form of health insurance. Insurance companies base their fees on risk which is only fair. The fact that it is enforced is another issue.
[/quote]
Hence my caveat of freed. We do not currently have a freed system.

[dominicansoul]

i just think it would put the mexican cartels out of business if we legalized pot...

[The Mater Dolorosa]

[hermit]

I'm a throwback from the sixties, Iowa City, Iowa I think you know where I stand...

[hermit]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NziqyNiNdI&feature=player_detailpage[/media]
And I'll add this...

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1352250364' post='2505370']
St. Thomas Aquinas thought that prostitution should be legal; when they're not legal, they spew out all sorts of evil and filth into society. when they're legal, they are a free choice of a very particular individualistic sin
[/quote]
That's a very lop sided portrayal. Prostitution is legal in Australia AND spews out all sorts of evil and filth into society albeit arguably a bit less than if illegal because made legal it can be monitored and regulated at least. And so should child pornography be legalised? How about the child sex traficing trade? If that were legalised peoples children may not disappear they could be openly sold. At least parents would know what happened to them.


[quote]
they are a [b]free choice[/b] of a very particular individualistic sin

[/quote]
Maybe for the user but often not for the prostitute.

Marijuana is an entirely different thing. I don't see it as particularly sinful as long as it's use doesn't impinge on other people rights. Therefore it may be good to legalise it as long as that doesn't cause an increase in use. Dunno how that can be addressed. Same issue as smoking and alcohol.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1352251242' post='2505377']
i just think it would put the mexican cartels out of business if we legalized pot...
[/quote]
I thought Mexican cartels were more into teh heavy stuff. Most Marijuana is grown locally in backyard hothouses, secret forrest hideouts etc. It is here anyway. Wanna see my plot or ask ardillacid he seems very interested?

[quote name='CherieMadame' timestamp='1352248677' post='2505365']


And I say that lovingly because my brother is one.
[/quote]
Maybe you tell us how it has affected him. It may change peoples if they have first hand info.

[Basilisa Marie]

If cigarettes and alcohol are legal, I see absolutely no reason why marijuana can't be legal. Marijuana is much safer to use than either of those drugs.

In Washington, if it gets passed, we'll tax the crud out of it (close to 25%), spend part of that money on anti-drug-use education, and other good things. You'd have to get a license to sell it, and can't do so within a hundred yards of anywhere kids might be, and can only advertise it on a small sign. You'd also get a DUI if you drive with over a certain amount of THC (the active ingredient in pot) in your system. And DS is absolutely right - it would in fact hurt the drug cartel's "business." Mexican drug cartels funnel a lot of the pot into Washington.

And as far as prostitution goes, if it's legal, it can be regulated, and thus it can be harder for pimps to kidnap and sell people into sexual slavery. It can also make it much easier for those who are involved in the sex trade to get out and to get help. Plus it would set a precedent of regulating it, thus opening the door for further regulation.

Plus, when you legalize and regulate something, it loses much of its draw. College freshmen and sophomores love to drink because it's rebellious. But once you've been of legal age for a few years, it makes it no big deal, and so it's much easier to avoid immorally indulging in it.

[Basilisa Marie]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1352255288' post='2505394']
Maybe you tell us how it has affected him. It may change peoples if they have first hand info.
[/quote]

I've never smoked pot myself, but I've got more than a handful of friends who do. All it does is make you tired, hungry and a bit silly. Having spent 3 years as an "RA" in college, I've had far more experiences of bad things happening when I see residents and friends indulge in too much alcohol. If you're really high, you sit there and talk about nonsense, watch stupid movies, and eat a lot of cheetos. If you're really drunk, you stumble around, throw up, and might end up in the hospital.