Nihil Obstat Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1352321446' post='2505957'] and Al Capone went to prison for "tax evasion..." crazy shtuff! [/quote] [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1352320018' post='2505938'] erowid.org ^ um, Ed, that is exactly what happened. pay attention. people who ran speakeasies and backyard moonshine business and smuggling liquor all fell by the wayside. and so will the cartels. they will be replaced by people who operate within the confines of the law, ie no killing each other, or lacing drugs. [/quote] Rumour is that my great grandfather was a rum runner. I have heard that he smuggled alcoholic beverages from a small town near the border (Rainy River, I think), into the US. I hope it is true. I am quite proud if it is.
Apotheoun Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 Although many Catholics may not like it, the Church's Magisterium has condemned any and all attempts to decriminalize drugs, including marijuana, because recreational drug use is contrary to the objective good of the human person. "We need to be able to identify and recognize the importance of drug lobbies, as well as the pressure they place on civil authorities and within the whole society, in order to fight them with the various weapons at our disposal: political, economic, and judicial; and at the national, regional, and international levels. In particular, it would be wise for all civil authorities, to set in place laws and norms to effectively fight the use of drugs and the networks established for their distribution, refusing to decriminalize any use of them. Decriminalization opens the door to total liberalizatin, leading only to the perpetuation of drug addiction." [Pontifical Council for Health Care, "Church: Drugs and Drug Addiction," no. 190]
Nihil Obstat Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='Apotheoun' timestamp='1352323129' post='2505982'] Although many Catholics may not like it, the Church's Magisterium has condemned any and all attempts to decriminalize drugs, including marijuana, because recreational drug use is contrary to the objective good of the human person. "We need to be able to identify and recognize the importance of drug lobbies, as well as the pressure they place on civil authorities and within the whole society, in order to fight them with the various weapons at our disposal: political, economic, and judicial; and at the national, regional, and international levels. In particular, it would be wise for all civil authorities, to set in place laws and norms to effectively fight the use of drugs and the networks established for their distribution, refusing to decriminalize any use of them. Decriminalization opens the door to total liberalizatin, leading only to the perpetuation of drug addiction." [Pontifical Council for Health Care, "Church: Drugs and Drug Addiction," no. 190] [/quote] What, no obligatory line about how this Latin law does not apply to the Eastern Churches?
Cherie Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='Apotheoun' timestamp='1352323129' post='2505982'] Although many Catholics may not like it, the Church's Magisterium has condemned any and all attempts to decriminalize drugs, including marijuana, because recreational drug use is contrary to the objective good of the human person. "We need to be able to identify and recognize the importance of drug lobbies, as well as the pressure they place on civil authorities and within the whole society, in order to fight them with the various weapons at our disposal: political, economic, and judicial; and at the national, regional, and international levels. In particular, it would be wise for all civil authorities, to set in place laws and norms to effectively fight the use of drugs and the networks established for their distribution, refusing to decriminalize any use of them. Decriminalization opens the door to total liberalizatin, leading only to the perpetuation of drug addiction." [Pontifical Council for Health Care, "Church: Drugs and Drug Addiction," no. 190] [/quote] Thank you!!
Nihil Obstat Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 All of us know full well that this represents the prudential opinion of the Pontifical Council for Health Care, and not infallible Church doctrine. Remember when the Pontifical Council for Justice, or whatever it is called, basically up and called for a worldwide financial regulating authority? Let us all use our common sense here.
Apotheoun Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1352323687' post='2505993'] What, no obligatory line about how this Latin law does not apply to the Eastern Churches? [/quote] No, because this is not an East / West issue. The moral law is universal. By the way, not only has the Church's Magisterium declared that any attempt to decriminalize drugs is contrary to Catholic moral principles, it also teaches that the use of drugs is sinful (i.e., gravely immoral), and yes that includes the use of cannabis. Edited November 7, 2012 by Apotheoun
Guest Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1352317008' post='2505915'] What I mean is that it would be a bad idea to try to use marijuana in a religious way, to try to gain a spiritual experience. I think that would be dangerous, spiritually speaking. I do not believe, necessarily, that using marijuana for its mind altering effects, is immoral. Again, not necessarily immoral, though it could be, and would be if used in excess. Like alcohol. [/quote] that was my point...if you're christian and meditating on the word of God and grounded in your faith that's good...nothing wrong with that in my humble opinion...nothing wrong with taking a hit out of a bowl and listening to mother angelica...the problem would be for a non christian using it in that way because it would be easy for the devil to get involved and lead one away from Christ... Edited November 7, 2012 by Guest
Nihil Obstat Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='Apotheoun' timestamp='1352324398' post='2506006'] No, because this is not an East / West issue. The moral law is universal. By the way, not only has the Church's Magisterium declared that any attempt to decriminalize drugs is contrary to Catholic moral principles, it also teaches that the use of drugs is sinful (i.e., gravely immoral), and yes that includes the use of cannabis. [/quote] Why is alcohol different?
dominicansoul Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1352324535' post='2506009'] Why is alcohol different? [/quote] because Jesus drank wine with his apostles and didn't smoke weed with his disciples.. that's the difference...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1352324646' post='2506012'] because Jesus drank wine with his apostles and didn't smoke weed with his disciples.. that's the difference... [/quote] Jesus did not drink whisky with His disciples either.
Apotheoun Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1352324535' post='2506009'] Why is alcohol different? [/quote] According to the Church's Magisterium a distinction is made between alcohol and drugs, because the former is not soley an intoxicant, since it can be used without any impairment to man's rational faculties, while the function of the latter - i.e., when used recreationally - is to alter one's perception of the world, even if only for a very short span of time. Drugs may only be used for legitimate therapeutic reasons, i.e., to heal the body or mind from sickness; while any recreational use is held to be gravely sinful.
Guest Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 Dude alcohol is a 1000x worse...I know...I can drink 3 beers in moderation and the temptation to want to drink more, go out to the bar and try to dance with women, ect ect is so strong...now I can deny this temptation and stop at 3 beers and stay home...on the other hand if I take a smoke of marijuana out of a bowl I want to watch a movie, listen to some music or read a good book...marijuana is not unholy and to try to pretend that it is is a joke and unbiblical....can it be abused and become sinfull ? Sure...but in and of itself it is not...
Guest Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 And I plan on getting my medical card and then it will be for "theraputic" reasons....so it will be all good...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='Apotheoun' timestamp='1352324980' post='2506017'] According to the Church's Magisterium a distinction is made between alcohol and drugs, because the former is not soley an intoxicant, since it can be used without any impairment to man's rational faculties, while the function of the latter - i.e., when used recreationally - is to alter one's perception of the world, even if only for a very short span of time. Drugs may only be used for legitimate therapeutic reasons, i.e., to heal the body or mind from sickness; while any recreational use is held to be gravely sinful. [/quote] Studies seem to reject the idea that it is conceptually impossible to take marijuana in moderation.
Apotheoun Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1352325094' post='2506022'] Studies seem to reject the idea that it is conceptually impossible to take marijuana in moderation. [/quote] I have seen studies that support both sides, and I have seen what marijuana has done to a friend of mine, whose short term memory has been damaged because he is addicted to that particular drug. Regardless of any studies, and what they may say, it is clear that the Church has declared recreational drug use to be immoral (including the use of cannabis), and that Catholics are duty bound to do all that they can to stop any attempts at liberalization of drug laws. Nihil, you are certainly free to disagree with the Church on this issue, or any other issue for that matter, after all you have free will. God gave us freedom to choose, but just remember that there are consequences to all our choices, and personally I think the safest bet is to go with what the Church teaches on moral issues. I guess I would not make a good Kennedy Catholic. Edited November 7, 2012 by Apotheoun
Nihil Obstat Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='Apotheoun' timestamp='1352325338' post='2506031'] Nihil, you are certainly free to disagree with the Church on this issue, or any other issue for that matter, after all you have free will. God gave us freedom to choose, but just remember that there are consequences to all our choices, and personally I think the safest bet is to go with what the Church teaches on moral issues. I guess I would not make a good Kennedy Catholic. [/quote] How about we do not go there, eh? I have always been polite to you, but I really do not like my Catholicity being questioned. We can discuss the issue as much as anyone is interested, but this is where I draw the line. I think there is amble justification for this being an issue on which Catholics can hold a range of acceptable opinions.
brianthephysicist Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 I know I'm jumping in completely late to this part of the discussion, but what's going to happen in these states where it has been made legal at the state level but it is still illegal on the national level?
Apotheoun Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1352325567' post='2506034'] How about we do not go there, eh? I have always been polite to you, but I really do not like my Catholicity being questioned. We can discuss the issue as much as anyone is interested, but this is where I draw the line.[/quote] I am always polite, even when I disagree with a person. [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1352325567' post='2506034'] I think there is amble justification for this being an issue on which Catholics can hold a range of acceptable opinions.[/quote] I do not agree. I have seen nothing issued by the Magisterium that agrees with your viewpoint. In fact, quite the opposite, because what you are saying has been explicitly condemned as contrary to Catholic moral principles in the magisterial documents I have read. Nevertheless, feel free to provide a magisterial source that supports your position, so that I can examine it and make an informed judgment.
Nihil Obstat Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='brianthephysicist' timestamp='1352325730' post='2506040'] I know I'm jumping in completely late to this part of the discussion, but what's going to happen in these states where it has been made legal at the state level but it is still illegal on the national level? [/quote] If I am not mistaken we have already seen a bit of this in California (?) with federal agencies shutting down legal-at-the-state-level dispensaries and arresting the owners. I may be wrong about that though. Someone else probably knows better than me.
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