Nihil Obstat Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1352324646' post='2506012'] because Jesus drank wine with his apostles and didn't smoke weed with his disciples.. that's the difference... [/quote] Jesus did not drink whisky with His disciples either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1352324535' post='2506009'] Why is alcohol different? [/quote] According to the Church's Magisterium a distinction is made between alcohol and drugs, because the former is not soley an intoxicant, since it can be used without any impairment to man's rational faculties, while the function of the latter - i.e., when used recreationally - is to alter one's perception of the world, even if only for a very short span of time. Drugs may only be used for legitimate therapeutic reasons, i.e., to heal the body or mind from sickness; while any recreational use is held to be gravely sinful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Dude alcohol is a 1000x worse...I know...I can drink 3 beers in moderation and the temptation to want to drink more, go out to the bar and try to dance with women, ect ect is so strong...now I can deny this temptation and stop at 3 beers and stay home...on the other hand if I take a smoke of marijuana out of a bowl I want to watch a movie, listen to some music or read a good book...marijuana is not unholy and to try to pretend that it is is a joke and unbiblical....can it be abused and become sinfull ? Sure...but in and of itself it is not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 And I plan on getting my medical card and then it will be for "theraputic" reasons....so it will be all good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='Apotheoun' timestamp='1352324980' post='2506017'] According to the Church's Magisterium a distinction is made between alcohol and drugs, because the former is not soley an intoxicant, since it can be used without any impairment to man's rational faculties, while the function of the latter - i.e., when used recreationally - is to alter one's perception of the world, even if only for a very short span of time. Drugs may only be used for legitimate therapeutic reasons, i.e., to heal the body or mind from sickness; while any recreational use is held to be gravely sinful. [/quote] Studies seem to reject the idea that it is conceptually impossible to take marijuana in moderation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1352325094' post='2506022'] Studies seem to reject the idea that it is conceptually impossible to take marijuana in moderation. [/quote] I have seen studies that support both sides, and I have seen what marijuana has done to a friend of mine, whose short term memory has been damaged because he is addicted to that particular drug. Regardless of any studies, and what they may say, it is clear that the Church has declared recreational drug use to be immoral (including the use of cannabis), and that Catholics are duty bound to do all that they can to stop any attempts at liberalization of drug laws. Nihil, you are certainly free to disagree with the Church on this issue, or any other issue for that matter, after all you have free will. God gave us freedom to choose, but just remember that there are consequences to all our choices, and personally I think the safest bet is to go with what the Church teaches on moral issues. I guess I would not make a good Kennedy Catholic. Edited November 7, 2012 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='Apotheoun' timestamp='1352325338' post='2506031'] Nihil, you are certainly free to disagree with the Church on this issue, or any other issue for that matter, after all you have free will. God gave us freedom to choose, but just remember that there are consequences to all our choices, and personally I think the safest bet is to go with what the Church teaches on moral issues. I guess I would not make a good Kennedy Catholic. [/quote] How about we do not go there, eh? I have always been polite to you, but I really do not like my Catholicity being questioned. We can discuss the issue as much as anyone is interested, but this is where I draw the line. I think there is amble justification for this being an issue on which Catholics can hold a range of acceptable opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthephysicist Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I know I'm jumping in completely late to this part of the discussion, but what's going to happen in these states where it has been made legal at the state level but it is still illegal on the national level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1352325567' post='2506034'] How about we do not go there, eh? I have always been polite to you, but I really do not like my Catholicity being questioned. We can discuss the issue as much as anyone is interested, but this is where I draw the line.[/quote] I am always polite, even when I disagree with a person. [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1352325567' post='2506034'] I think there is amble justification for this being an issue on which Catholics can hold a range of acceptable opinions.[/quote] I do not agree. I have seen nothing issued by the Magisterium that agrees with your viewpoint. In fact, quite the opposite, because what you are saying has been explicitly condemned as contrary to Catholic moral principles in the magisterial documents I have read. Nevertheless, feel free to provide a magisterial source that supports your position, so that I can examine it and make an informed judgment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='brianthephysicist' timestamp='1352325730' post='2506040'] I know I'm jumping in completely late to this part of the discussion, but what's going to happen in these states where it has been made legal at the state level but it is still illegal on the national level? [/quote] If I am not mistaken we have already seen a bit of this in California (?) with federal agencies shutting down legal-at-the-state-level dispensaries and arresting the owners. I may be wrong about that though. Someone else probably knows better than me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='brianthephysicist' timestamp='1352325730' post='2506040'] I know I'm jumping in completely late to this part of the discussion, but what's going to happen in these states where it has been made legal at the state level but it is still illegal on the national level? [/quote] I am not totally sure..but a friend of mine used to 'grow' for the state of CA.... had a bunch of hoops to jump through... seemed legit, in a very odd way....feds shut him down after 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) 100 percent you can smoke a little bowl and not be intoxicated....its the same as drinking a couple beers...the buzz is a little different but both totally holy....also from what I've read the church talks about "drugs" so say pot is legal somewhere does that make it ok ? How about caffine ? That is a drug...just because this corrupt government the same one that's killed over 50 million babies makes pot illegal doesn't mean its evil...God calls it good in the first few pages of the Bible...Again if one does not smoke and considers it sinfull I would never try to get them to and convince them its not a sin...but to the person who knows its not a sin then its not...don't feel like getting my Bible out but there are many verses that talk about not condeming yourself for something you know that's not a sin...also Paul talks about how if your concience leads you to believe its a sin then it is....but if you know its not a sin then its not...he is talking about food and drink...also what marijuana is desribed as in geneisis...it is called a food because its a seed bearing plant...God calls it good... Edited November 7, 2012 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1352325824' post='2506044'] If I am not mistaken we have already seen a bit of this in California (?) with federal agencies shutting down legal-at-the-state-level dispensaries and arresting the owners.[/quote] That is correct, because the federal government has declared cannabis to be a controlled substance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1352325972' post='2506046'] 100 percent you can smoke a little bowl and not be intoxicated....its the same as drinking a couple beers...the buzz is a little different but both totally holy....also from what I've read the church talks about "drugs" so say pot is legal somewhere does that make it ok ? How about caffine ? That is a drug...just because this corrupt government the same one that's killed over 50 million babies makes pot illegal doesn't mean its evil...God calls it good in the first few pages of the Bible...Again if one does not smoke and considers it sinfull I would never try to get them to and convince them its a sin...but to the person who knows its not a sin then its not...don't feel like getting my Bible out but there are many verses that talk about not condeming yourself for something you know that's not a sin...also Paul talks about how if your concience leads you to believe its a sin then it is....but if you know its not a sin then its not...he is talking about food and drink...also what marijuana is desribed as in geneisis...it is called a food because its a seed bearing plant...God calls it good... [/quote] Delivery Boy, you may do what you wish. I am just informing you of the fact that the Church has declared the use of marijuana to be gravely sinful. If you do not agree with the Church, that is your business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='Apotheoun' timestamp='1352325796' post='2506043'] I am always polite, even when I disagree with a person. I do not agree. I have seen nothing issued by the Magisterium that agrees with your viewpoint. In fact, quite the opposite, because what you are saying has been explicitly condemned as contrary to Catholic moral principles in the magisterial documents I have read. Nevertheless, feel free to provide a magisterial source that supports your position, so that I can examine it and make an informed judgment. [/quote] IMO this [url="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20021124_politica_en.html"]Doctrinal Note[/url], in speaking about a "legitmate plurality of temporal options" supports the idea that, when it comes to social issues like marijuana, certain variety of opinion is not unacceptable. I have seen opinions of some Church leaders and Vatican departments that marijuana use is sinful. That is fine. They make good arguments. But I think there is room for their positions to develop, as they are not [i]exclusively[/i] within the realm of faith and morals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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