Blessed Mary Again

[LouisvilleFan]

Check out "True Devotion to Mary" by St. Louis De Montfort. It's called "true devotion" because it centers on Christ and offers the surest way to follow Him (whereas false devotion would be too focused on Mary or otherwise become a diversion from Christ).

 

Another cool thought I picked up once is that Mary being "full of grace" was required so that our redemption would depend fully on grace. If Mary were a sinner, then our salvation would depend on the decision of sinful humanity. Since she was preserved from sin by grace, her "yes" to God is an act of "sola gratia."

 

The most helpful thought for me along the conversion route was recognizing Jesus fully entrusted himself to Mary in a far more vulnerable way than anyone every could. All Christians should want to follow Christ all the way to the Cross, and that journey began with giving Himself to Mary. And you have to think, for the first 18 days, Jesus and Mary literally shared the same heart. How could the Blood of Christ ever be sinful?

[Nihil Obstat]

I would not recommend Montfort to a Protestant, or even many Catholics. At least not without significant background.

[Slappo]

I would not recommend Montfort to a Protestant, or even many Catholics. At least not without significant background.

Considering his writings start off talking about how even many Catholics will think it is too strong of a devotion. I agree

[Evangetholic]

In retrospect. I am no longer opposed to the Hail Mary. It flows nicely on the tongue.

[Apotheoun]

Here is the Byzantine form of the prayer of Angelic Salutation:

 

Rejoice, Virgin Theotokos, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, for thou hast given birth to the Savior of our souls. Amen

[Evangetholic]

This is easy to pray. And thank you brother.

[reyb]

Here is the Byzantine form of the prayer of Angelic Salutation:

 

Rejoice, Virgin Theotokos, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, for thou hast given birth to the Savior of our souls. Amen

 

 

This is easy to pray. And thank you brother.

 

Do you know who is Mary’s parents (her mother and father)? 

 

[Evangetholic]

Christian tradition and my Catholic grandmother say Sts. Joachim and Anne. I have no quarrel.

[reyb]

Christian tradition and my Catholic grandmother say Sts. Joachim and Anne. I have no quarrel.

 

If I am not mistaken Anne is also the mother of Elizabeth, the wife of Zacharias and the mother of John the Baptist. Of course, this is as far as tradition is concern. Do I am right?

This is important because I really want to know if Mary is sinless from the very beginning.  So are you referring to Anne the mother of Elizabeth?

 

[Evangetholic]

Elizabeth, plainly, was at least a generation older than Blessed Mary. I find it unlikely that they would've shared a mother--they were related on how scripture is silent and tradition gives different answers (sisters is not one of those answers). (And I do not believe in the Immaculate Conception.)

Edited February 17, 2013 by Evangetholic

[reyb]

Elizabeth, plainly, was at least a generation older than Blessed Mary. I find it unlikely that they would've shared a mother--they were related on how scripture is silent and tradition gives different answers (sisters is not one of those answers). (And I do not believe in the Immaculate Conception.)

 

But do you believe that Mary never sinned?

[Evangetholic]

I am not Catholic. I believe the Bible when it says "for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." Jesus is the only  Biblical exception I see to this.

[reyb]

I am not Catholic. I believe the Bible when it says "for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." Jesus is the only  Biblical exception I see to this.

 

Meaning, you do not believe that Mary is sinless or never sin. Is this what you are telling me?

[Evangetholic]

Yes. That is what I am telling you.

[reyb]

It's a good and wholesome thing to call her such. God Almighty lived in her womb and drew nourishment from her breasts--the Christian world is becoming too weak on Christ's deity for any reasonable man to object to calling her the Mother of God.

 

If I understand you correctly, you are now simply telling me that the Mother of your God is a sinner. Not only that, even his grandmother Anne and grandfather Joachim and his great, great, great grandparents I wish you know them, are all sinners. Is this what you are telling me? 

 

[Evangetholic]

Please do reach your point.  Insofar as the Lord's ancestors were human I am comfortable saying they were sinners.

[reyb]

Please do reach your point.  Insofar as the Lord's ancestors were human I am comfortable saying they were sinners.

 

 

It is written in 1 John 3:8 ‘He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning.’

Now if Mary is a sinner and all his grand great great great grandparents too.  Are you now  saying the mother and grandparents of your God are all of the devil?

Edited February 17, 2013 by reyb

[Evangetholic]

Do you consider this to be exegesis? You are playing word games not reading scripture. This is not how you form correct doctrine.

[reyb]

Do you consider this to be exegesis? You are playing word games not reading scripture. This is not how you form correct doctrine.

 

 

I am simply following your thoughts regarding your mother of God doctrine. So, is that what you are telling us? (since you are comfortable having a God who's mother and grandparents are all sinners?).

Edited February 17, 2013 by reyb

[reyb]

This is what a true witness said regarding Jesus Christ which is totally different from yours.

 

 

It is written in Heb 6:16-7:3

 

Men swear by someone greater than themselves, and the oath confirms what is said and puts an end to all argument. Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised, he confirmed it with an oath. God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope offered to us may be greatly encouraged. We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, where Jesus, who went before us, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek. 

 

This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High. He met Abraham returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed him, and Abraham gave him a tenth of everything. First, his name means "king of righteousness"; then also, "king of Salem " means "king of peace." Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God he remains a priest forever. 

 

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Now, Do your Christ like Melchizedek without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, and a priest forever?.