Hananiah Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 [quote name='ICTHUS' date='May 27 2004, 12:08 PM'] I'm merely saying that the works aren't added as anything from 'outside' the saving Faith, but proceed from that Faith as the natural fruit thereof. [/quote] I agree that works proceed from faith, but with an important reservation. Works do not [i]necessarily[/i] proceed from faith. That is Protestant teaching. Faith does not just start a conveyor belt which kicks out works. We must consciously cooperate with the grace of God in order for our faith to be fruitful, which grace is possible to resist. To continue the metaphor, faith provides us with a crank which we must turn in order for the works to start rolling out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the lumberjack Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 do you think you will be conscious of EVERY good work you ever do in your life? --asks the poor disfigured Lumberjack as he heaves heavy breaths thru his newly (yet highly GQ) mask covered visage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3chrmd Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 [quote]Buddy, you need to learn a bit more about your faith and how to express the truths of the faith a little more eloquently. We aren't saved by 'salvation by works' - we're saved by faith working in love (Galatians 5:6) and sustained by hope (Hebrews 11:1). It's all one big continuum. The works aren't added from outside, they proceed forth from the Faith. We love the Lord our God with all our hearts, and all our minds, and all our souls, and all our strength, and as a result, we love our neighbor as ourselves. It is THIS faith - a living faith, a faith that works, that saves. Not "Faith + Works = Justification" The doctrine you offered a second ago is not Christianity, it is semi-pelagianism.[/quote] excuse me...I know my faith...so don't tell me other wise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted May 29, 2004 Share Posted May 29, 2004 (edited) [quote name='P3chrmd' date='May 28 2004, 01:46 PM'] excuse me...I know my faith...so don't tell me other wise! [/quote] I wasn't saying you didn't know it, I was saying that [b]the way in which you expressed it[/b] was not very good - in fact, it turned a Christian idea into a Pelagian one. Also, your attitude of "I know my faith, don't tell me otherwise" is prideful and arrogant. We must always be open to correction from people who may be more knowlegeable, or better able to communicate the Truths of the Faith - this is the only way we can learn. Trust me, if you had said that around St. Augustine (if the good man was still alive) , I'm sure he would have reacted just the way I did - we are not 'saved with works' we are saved by faith working in love. (Gal 5:6) Edited May 29, 2004 by ICTHUS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted May 29, 2004 Share Posted May 29, 2004 [quote name='Hananiah' date='May 28 2004, 12:31 AM'] I agree that works proceed from faith, but with an important reservation. Works do not [i]necessarily[/i] proceed from faith. That is Protestant teaching. Faith does not just start a conveyor belt which kicks out works. We must consciously cooperate with the grace of God in order for our faith to be fruitful, which grace is possible to resist. To continue the metaphor, faith provides us with a crank which we must turn in order for the works to start rolling out. [/quote] I would put it a different way, Hananiah. Our faith will necessarily produce works, unless we somehow hinder it. (To modify your analogy, our faith is a machine that automatically produces works. We may throw a wrench (sin) into that machine if we choose - my analogy is a negative action, yours is positive) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 bumped in case anyone wishes to respond to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 [quote name='Dusty Fro' date='May 27 2004, 07:33 PM'] A thought: if only one man (Luther) thought the things he did, where did all these Protestants come from? Other people must have agreed with him. [/quote] Ever hear the old addage, "There's a sucker born every minute"? If man was not so easily deceived and led astray, the devil wouldn't have so easy a time with us all, beginning with our first parents. Protestant errors, like temptations of the devil, often appeal to "self." No longer should you suffer, endure poverty, or pain...The Lord worshipped in protestant circles hates to see his people sick or driving a jalopy...Material wealth and good health are the graces He bestows. Uh, at least, that's the way it appears... Pax Christi. <>< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted May 31, 2004 Author Share Posted May 31, 2004 [quote name='Anna' date='May 30 2004, 09:28 PM']Ever hear the old addage, "There's a sucker born every minute"? If man was not so easily deceived and led astray, the devil wouldn't have so easy a time with us all, beginning with our first parents. Protestant errors, like temptations of the devil, often appeal to "self." No longer should you suffer, endure poverty, or pain...The Lord worshipped in protestant circles hates to see his people sick or driving a jalopy...Material wealth and good health are the graces He bestows. Uh, at least, that's the way it appears... Pax Christi. <><[/quote] :angry: it's a good thing i'm leaving soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carson Weber Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 Mulls, join Jesus' Kingdom. You'll give glory to God by doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Fro Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 I don't like your attitude, Anna. You are severely misguided on a lot concerning Protestants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theoketos Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 [quote name='Crusader_4' date='May 25 2004, 08:38 PM'] Protestants Unite Quick Cross the Tiber!!! Lol Sorry couldnt help that one. [/quote] ALia Iacta! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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