eagle_eye222001 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Pope Francis pledged to fight for priest kidnapped by the junta, 1976 letter reveals That should be all she wrote for the sad attempts to discredit the Holy Father being made by some members of the media. I was figuring as what has being perpetrated couldn't practically and reasonably be true. It just didn't make sense and seemed out of character for someone like him. So it's been what.....16 pages? Have we determined if the pope is a good enough Catholic yet? Has an adequate argument been made yet about how all good traditions are literally going to get stopped by one (probably short) papacy? Apparently traditions can't get restarted or anything like that.......and you leave forums because some people are trying to keep the peace? PEOPLE SHUT THE HECK UP. THIS IS A BOGUS DEBATE.....bad as the media. Maybe this thread should be burned and new clean hopeful thread started called "Pope Francis Updates?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 suppose he's not actually a Cardinal, is he? since he wasn't at the conclave before the extra omnes |I guess not, for some reason I was thinking that he was both Pope emeritus and had returned to the cardinalate but I guess that's not true. you're right, they should arrange something in particular apart from the other cardinals to show him kissing the ring. I would say that Benedict is a pope, just not a sitting pope. Once a bishop always a bishop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I don't think that this thread is 16 pages of debate on Pope Francis' role during the dirty war in Argentina. This thread has been all over the place, and mainly has dealt with information about his recent activities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) well the papacy is not considered a sacrament distinct from the episcopate, so I'm not sure that would apply really. of course once a bishop always a bishop, but the Pope is just a bishop with a particular position, albeit an ecclesiologically important position, he receives no particular sacrament to elevate him above the episcopate (sacramentally he is a bishop like his brother bishops, then). does being a "pope emeritus" actually make one a "pope, just not a reigning pope" or is it more accurately described as a "former pope"? hmm... eagle, I'm not exactly sure what you're reading, but personally I think your statement there is ludicrously out of touch with what has actually been being posted by phatmassers here regarding their various opinions and concerns related to Pope Francis. Edited March 18, 2013 by Aloysius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 well the papacy is not considered a sacrament distinct from the episcopate, so I'm not sure that would apply really. of course once a bishop always a bishop, but the Pope is just a bishop with a particular position, albeit an ecclesiologically important position, he receives no particular sacrament to elevate him above the episcopate (sacramentally he is a bishop like his brother bishops, then) eagle, I'm not exactly sure what you're reading, but personally I think your statement there is ludicrously out of touch with what has actually been being posted by phatmassers here regarding their various opinions and concerns related to Pope Francis. The pope is the bishop of Rome, and Benedict was the bishop of that see, and retired in it. Ergo the emeritus title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangetholic Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) A retired, deposed secular sovereign remains a "king." (Ignore 20th century Dutch practice) Edited March 18, 2013 by Evangetholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangetholic Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Pope Francis is the Pope. Pope Benedict is Pope Benedict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 dead popes are former popes too, and we still call them pope so and so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I did not know that. Where can one find the special ceremonies reserved to such Masses? Modern-day Masses are scripted in the Ceremonial of Bishops. I think the same is true for the extraordinary form (which I had to use for a televised Pontifical High Mass once). Everything is scripted for these Masses, right down to the moments that the miter comes on and off, what to do in special circumstances, etc. In fact, some of the rules for special Masses (the Triduum, ordinations, etc.) are better explained in the Ceremonial of Bishops than in the Missal. I'll ask my former boss what he knows about Papal liturgies. He's been an MC for Papal vespers before so he can tell me where they got the rubrics for everything, though again these are all current rubrics. I imagine the source is the same principle, though today the rubrics allow for more freedoms (such as the freedom to wear or not wear a miter at daily Mass, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Whispers in the Loggia on "Launch" Eve, Rings and Arms: http://whispersintheloggia.blogspot.com/2013/03/on-launch-eve-rings-and-arms.html Deacon Greg on Letting Go: The challenging lessons of Benedict and Francis: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/deaconsbench/2013/03/letting-go-the-challenging-lessons-of-benedict-and-francis/ Pope Francis, I think, is teaching something strikingly similar: life is not about what we have, but who we are. Our faith isn’t about what we wear, but how we live. How can we live that best? What do we need to evangelize, to save souls, to uplift hearts? And, alternatively, what don’t we need? What is getting in the way? Based on his lived experience, he may be trying to show us: there is as much beauty and wonder and sanctity among the poor who pray in a shanty as there is among the ermine-vested clerics who kneel in a marble basilica. Pope Francis is asking us, challenging us, to see that. Yes, as a few people have noted: there is much to be to be cherished in the ancient beauty and traditions of the liturgy we love, in the devotions we practice, in the languages we offer before God in prayer. This is our heritage and our legacy and all that, together, does draw us closer to a sense of the eternal. But: just as Benedict began our Lent with a lesson in letting go, Francis is closing this penitential season with one about stripping bare—getting back to basics. Maybe these two popes aren’t as different as some think – and will serve, together, as the two great teachers of the New Evangelization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Domini Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Pope Francis' Homily at Inauguration of Petrine Ministry Mass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Should we be concerned about the installation Mass? Jimmy Akin: http://www.ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/should-we-be-concerned-about-pope-franciss-inaugural-mass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Installation Mass homily: http://oxyparadoxy.blogspot.com/2013/03/pope-francis-installation-mass-homily.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I thought it was beautiful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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