Feelings Of Intense Frustration

[beaverman]

Hello, I would like to share the intense frustrations I have in regards to the way the Mass is celebrated and the general loss of faith in real prescience of God in the Eucharist. I understand that many people do not share the same views as I do and I respect that. I just feel the need to share my voice.

 

1) Using glass / clay vessels to distribute Jesus Christ (God). - This is a tragedy, and it gets to the core of what I am mainly upset about; and that is: Words not reflecting actions. It is extremely irreverent to not use gold or precious metal vessels. We use gold to and precious to honor our Kings and Queens, why not even more so with Christ? Glass vessels diminishes the prescience of God and makes the Eucharist seem like any other bread, and the Precious Blood like any other wine. It's atrocious and a disservice to God.

 

2) Putting a fully lit Christmas tree directly in front of the tabernacle - What is more important, God, or a Christmas Tree? Obviously the Christmas tree if you put it directly in front of the apex of our faith. This is so obviously wrong, that it kills me that people do not see the absurdity of this. It diminishes the importance of Christ in the tabernacle.

 

3) Receiving communion on the hand - I understand this is a highly controversial issue that can have polarizing effects on people. Like any other controversial issue, it has people who are profoundly for and against this practice. I am not trying to convince anyone which side of this issue is 'right or wrong', but personally I would rather die than touch the Eucharist with my own unconsecrated hands. I will leave it at that. 

 

4) Standing during the consecration . . . when there are kneelers . . . - I honestly don't know how to articulate my disappointment with young people today and the educators who inform them on the faith. How can you not kneel? How? People may think they understand that what they are seeing is God, but they haven't taken this truth to heart. THIS IS GOD! The same exact God that you will be standing before in judgment after your death! We should tremble with reverence in very words of the consecration. "This is my body, this is my blood". It's important to ponder this mystery. How we, as mere mortal human beings, receive God in His entirety? This is something that not even the Seraphim can participate in and yet, we can! It's the most amazing encounter with God that we will ever have in our life. Let's treat it that way.

 

 

Some may disagree with what I consider liturgical tragedies, and that's okay. But I know that even though the times may change, the truth does not. 

 

That is all.

[Basilisa Marie]

It sounds to me like #2 is an isolated (though quite unfortunate) incident, and #1 is definitely a legitimate liturgical abuse.  I'm glad you realize that 3 and 4 aren't objectively true, but rather your own opinion.  Might save this thread from getting nasty. :)  I do think your opinion of rather dying in 3 is rather extreme, and might be worth reconsidering if that's how you literally feel.  But then again I can imagine all sorts of scenarios where it'd be much better for me to touch the Eucharist with my hands than let something else happen to it.  

 

As for 4, I just want to point out that standing was the original liturgical posture for receiving communion for Christians.  While it's definitely good (and necessary!) to meditate on the supreme majesty of God, standing isn't automatically a less reverent posture.  Kneeling invokes different symbolism than standing (submission before the divine authority vs new life as adopted child of Christ), and the important thing is good catechesis, no matter what posture we use. It's also important to obey our bishops, especially when we don't want to. 

 

Anyway, I'm just saying all this as food for thought.  

[TheLordsSouljah]

Ahh, totally agree!! It makes me cry inside. Best way to deal with stuff is by prayer and example, I find. Because for me, just seeing another very devout soul kneeling in sincere adoration does so much for my belief and faith. It's certainly good to get frustrations out, though. God bless!

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

i agree with your sufferings except 1 and 3. I choose to recieve kneeling with my tounge stuck out but is no longer the norm as alot of things as we grow in the understanding of faith, ie : not everything is an infallible matter of faith and morals, like kneeling to recieve the holy host. And on the clay or glass matter, i truely think it is ok whether there brass, gold or clay or glass. I don't think either is more precious than the other, what is more precious is the faith of the parish. Thats my op anyhow.

 

Onward christian souls.

JESUS iz LORD.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

i agree with your sufferings except 1 and 3. I choose to recieve kneeling with my tounge stuck out but is no longer the norm as alot of things as we grow in the understanding of faith, ie : not everything is an infallible matter of faith and morals, like kneeling to recieve the holy host. And on the clay or glass matter, i truely think it is ok whether there brass, gold or clay or glass. I don't think either is more precious than the other, what is more precious is the faith of the parish. Thats my op anyhow. Kneeling when recieving or women wearing head dress is still allowed though, just not compulsary anymore. Of course the infallible matters of faith and morals will never change but it seems our understanding of one of the gifts of the holy spirit (reverance.) Has grown and changed.

 

Onward christian souls.

JESUS iz LORD.

[Spem in alium]

I do understand your frustrations, especially in regards to the first two scenarios. I think the right avenue is that of prayer. 

In regards to 3), I receive Communion on the hand, and do understand the issue you and others have. Due to personal circumstances it would be much more convenient and less awkward for whoever is distributing Communion if I received on the hand. I would probably receive on the tongue if I could.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

I do understand your frustrations, especially in regards to the first two scenarios. I think the right avenue is that of prayer. 

In regards to 3), I receive Communion on the hand, and do understand the issue you and others have. Due to personal circumstances it would be much more convenient and less awkward for whoever is distributing Communion if I received on the hand. I would probably receive on the tongue if I could.

 

 

Ask your parish priest, i asked mine if i could kneel and recieve on the tounge and he said yes. And kneeling is pretty much bowing before recieving so you cover that as well, though i'm unsure of that matter so i bow as well before kneeling.

[Spem in alium]

Ask your parish priest, i asked mine if i could kneel and recieve on the tounge and he said yes. And kneeling is pretty much bowing before recieving so you cover that as well, though i'm unsure of that matter so i bow as well before kneeling.

Thanks, Tab. :) I'm not sure what my priest could do as it is a fairly sensitive and personal issue, but it's a good idea to ask him - I've never thought of that before. Up till now I've just made the choice that seems to have an easier outcome, because I know my other options will probably cause greater discomfort.

[TheLordsSouljah]

i agree with your sufferings except 1 and 3. I choose to recieve kneeling with my tounge stuck out but is no longer the norm as alot of things as we grow in the understanding of faith, ie : not everything is an infallible matter of faith and morals, like kneeling to recieve the holy host. And on the clay or glass matter, i truely think it is ok whether there brass, gold or clay or glass. I don't think either is more precious than the other, what is more precious is the faith of the parish. Thats my op anyhow.

 

Onward christian souls.

JESUS iz LORD.

I think with regard to what the sacred vessels are made out of, it's like sticking a clay crown on a King's head. God deserves the best.

[TheLordsSouljah]

And just my own random speculations on receiving, I have received on the tongue since I was seven years old. Then I went on a pilgrimage and was so touched and amazed by the reverence of the pilgrims, that, after doing further study (especially about the Eucharistic miracles), I can't help but kneel. If the glorious risen Christ came to you in a dream, flanked by all the hosts of heaven, smiled at you as His beloved and kissed you on the forehead, what could you do but fall to your knees? And Holy Communion is far more intimate than a kiss on the forehead. Ahh, so beautiful!! <3

 

[cmaD2006]

Thanks, Tab. :) I'm not sure what my priest could do as it is a fairly sensitive and personal issue, but it's a good idea to ask him - I've never thought of that before. Up till now I've just made the choice that seems to have an easier outcome, because I know my other options will probably cause greater discomfort.

 

Technically you *can* kneel to receive.  It is a proper posture for receiving communion and is spelled out in the GIRM in the US.  Just prepare yourself for an argument that may ensue with some priests (been there, done that).

 

I choose to kneel only at my home parish where I know the priest-pastor assigned to the spanish community does not have a problem with it.  Although maybe at some point in the future my personal stance on that may change.  I tend to avoid such conflicts at communion time.

[T-fish]

My frustration is why they don't distribute this holy bread to everyone.

Do you think Jesus asked who went to CCD before he fed the thousands.

Christmas tree. lmao

What do you get when you incorporate Judaism and Paganism? Christianity

[GeorgiiMichael]

My frustration is why they don't distribute this holy bread to everyone.

Do you think Jesus asked who went to CCD before he fed the thousands.

Christmas tree. lmao

What do you get when you incorporate Judaism and Paganism? Christianity

 

Try harder.

[ToJesusMyHeart]

My frustration is why they don't distribute this holy bread to everyone.

Do you think Jesus asked who went to CCD before he fed the thousands.

Christmas tree. lmao

What do you get when you incorporate Judaism and Paganism? Christianity

It's not bread. 

[Spem in alium]

Technically you *can* kneel to receive.  It is a proper posture for receiving communion and is spelled out in the GIRM in the US.  Just prepare yourself for an argument that may ensue with some priests (been there, done that).

 

I choose to kneel only at my home parish where I know the priest-pastor assigned to the spanish community does not have a problem with it.  Although maybe at some point in the future my personal stance on that may change.  I tend to avoid such conflicts at communion time.

Ah - I'm sorry, I should have made it clearer. My issue has nothing to do with kneeling :) But thank you for that.

In regards to kneeling, most people in the churches I've been to don't do it. I saw one lady kneel for Communion once, but she had asked the priest earlier, I believe.

[Slappo]

Standing has been the normative position of the Eastern Catholic Church since it's beginning or close to it. They cannot kneel on Sundays.

Theologically there is nothing wrong standing during either communion or the consecration. It is a western practice and tradition, but standing vs sitting vs kneeling is the least of our problems

[Nihil Obstat]

For a Roman Catholic in this day and age, I would say that it is somewhat inappropriate or concerning to attempt to make standing normative when kneeling is part of our liturgical tradition. Our practice is valuable just as much as is the Eastern practice, so Roman Catholics should kneel, and Eastern Catholics and Orthodox should stand when standing is called for.

[TheLordsSouljah]

My frustration is why they don't distribute this holy bread Christ Himself to everyone.

Do you think Jesus asked who went to CCD before he fed the thousands.

Christmas tree. lmao

What do you get when you incorporate Judaism and Paganism? Christianity

Umm, only problem with this is that it would be like trying to water a dead branch. Sorry, but it doesn't work. Only God's Grace through the water of Baptism is gonna do that for ya!!

[ToJesusMyHeart]

Umm, only problem with this is that it would be like trying to water a dead branch. Sorry, but it doesn't work. Only God's Grace through the water of Baptism is gonna do that for ya!!

Well said. 

[beaverman]

As for 4, I just want to point out that standing was the original liturgical posture for receiving communion for Christians.  While it's definitely good (and necessary!) to meditate on the supreme majesty of God, standing isn't automatically a less reverent posture.  Kneeling invokes different symbolism than standing (submission before the divine authority vs new life as adopted child of Christ), and the important thing is good catechesis, no matter what posture we use. It's also important to obey our bishops, especially when we don't want to. 

 

 

Though standing and kneeling invoke different kinds of symbolism, does that make them equal in their significance?

 

Also, in my previous post, I was not talking about  kneeling while receiving , but kneeling during the consecration.

 

What did you mean obeying our bishops when we don't want to? I am not supporting anything that is contrary to what the Church teaches.