Non-habited Communities.

[Spem in alium]

Thank you, nunsense, for all you have contributed and for the charity and openness with which you have done so. :) 

 

I probably should have known this would become a debate, and I wish there was less generalisation and assumption going on. 

 

Well are they not the list is quite too long, Sisters of Syt Joseph of Peace, Sinsinawa Dominicans, Sisters of Mercy America, Sisters of St Joseph of Carondolet, Sisters of Social Service, want me to add more :D

 

Thank you for your answer. Though to be honest, I didn't find it particularly relevant to the question I asked, which was about your opinion and not a request for a list of communities. I am still interested in your opinion, though based on your posts I feel I can hazard a guess as to what it would be. :)

 

nuclear war is aeons ago, believe me I know

 

I do hope so, though I am unsure of this being the case.

[beatitude]

I agree with nunsense, and I would also add that I find comments like 'what would these sisters know about it' to be insulting and quite patronising. The first woman in the USA to get a PhD in computer science was a nun, Sr Mary Kenneth Keller. Sisters are often very well-qualified in their fields, whether through having a high level of education, or simply through lived experience, and I wouldn't judge them for lack of knowledge about their apostolate without knowing them and their lives very well first. (And if we did know them very well, we'd probably lose the inclination to judge - that tends to happen once you really get to know someone.)

[Little Flower]

 

 

There isn't always a clear-cut distinction between the religious and the political. Plenty of people would say that the work done by the Sisters of Life is political, but would you ever write, "They want to end abortion. Excuse me? That's not the job of a religious community, that's a political thing"?

 

Nunsense has already described how as a woman with very limited experience of religious life, she decided that she knew better than the sister who was giving her spiritual direction, and broke off some valuable direction because she felt that the sister's community didn't have the right ideas and attitudes. I would be careful about telling religious communities what their job should and shouldn't be, as they are going to have a far better understanding of what they do and why they do it than a woman who has never lived their life. There are many, many different needs in the world today, and this is reflected in the Church's diversity of missions. In Hiroshima and Nagasaki there are still people who are ill and disabled because of the bombs that were dropped over half a century ago. Babies were born with severe congenital problems because of how the radiation affected pregnant women. Nuclear accidents such as the one at Chernobyl pose similar huge risks - a whole city had to be abandoned, lives were lost, people developed illnesses like leukemia, the rate of foetal abnormalities shot right up. How does fighting to reduce the risk of nuclear war make a community unfaithful to the Church? Such a mission says nothing about the religious orthodoxy of these women. All it says is that they are engaging in work that you as a laywoman don't think they should be prioritising, and that really doesn't make them unfaithful.

 

 

 

That's a good point I hadn't thought about before. I guess I just don't see nuclear war as a big threat right now or as something thats really endangering or hurting people right now, and that there is a lot of other good they could be doing some other way. But I suppose that is a very similar argument to that used to say that contemplative life is useless, and that they could do a lot more good helping the poor. 

 

I guess to me when I see something like that its not so much that I think its terrible that they want to do stuff to end nuclear war (although imho its a little silly), but that it seems like a sign that the community is liberal and maybe not focused on what (in my personal opinion) matters most.

 

But thats a very good point that I have never lived their life and maybe shouldn't be saying what they should or should not do.

 

I see. Thank you for explaining what you meant. :)

 

As beatitude has said, oftentimes it can be difficult to separate religion and politics. The non-habited community I'm interested in does a lot of work with refugees and asylum seekers and had a strong presence in Japan following WWII. To someone unaware with their mission, it may seem like a very political venture, or at least one separated from a religious context - and the fact that they don't wear a habit could make such conclusions seem even more strong. But in fact, it connects right to the heart of their Benedictine values. The same could be argued with habited communities doing a similar kind of work. 

 

But you do not HAVE to make assumptions. This is the whole point of my thread. I can now, more than ever, see the value of being open - I arrived at this understanding as a result of my own doing and from what has been posted here. The world is full of assumptions, and from what I've seen they tend to do more harm than good and be more wrong than right. But that is my own conclusion. So why not try being more open? It may end up that the non-habited communities you come across are the way you assume. But not all are that way, and this is something I can attest to. That's why it's very, very important to be open. Be cautious if you need to be, but don't live a life based on assumed rather than tested conclusions. 

I didn't explain myself very well. What I meant to say was not that I have to make assumptions, but that with the experience I've had, I inevitably wind up making assumptions. Of course, thats not to say that I can't stop myself from making them, but that naturally I wind up making them.

 

I am trying to work on being more open. It really is a great leap of faith to actually visit this community I am planning on visiting; I have zero attraction to them but my spiritual director has asked me to visit them. 

 

Beatitude and Spem in Alium, thank you for your posts. Like I said I really am trying to be more open, and I appreciate what you guys said. :)

[beatitude]

That's a good point I hadn't thought about before. I guess I just don't see nuclear war as a big threat right now or as something thats really endangering or hurting people right now, and that there is a lot of other good they could be doing some other way. But I suppose that is a very similar argument to that used to say that contemplative life is useless, and that they could do a lot more good helping the poor. 

 

I guess to me when I see something like that its not so much that I think its terrible that they want to do stuff to end nuclear war (although imho its a little silly), but that it seems like a sign that the community is liberal and maybe not focused on what (in my personal opinion) matters most.

 

But thats a very good point that I have never lived their life and maybe shouldn't be saying what they should or should not do.

 

I didn't explain myself very well. What I meant to say was not that I have to make assumptions, but that with the experience I've had, I inevitably wind up making assumptions. Of course, thats not to say that I can't stop myself from making them, but that naturally I wind up making them.

 

I am trying to work on being more open. It really is a great leap of faith to actually visit this community I am planning on visiting; I have zero attraction to them but my spiritual director has asked me to visit them. 

 

Beatitude and Spem in Alium, thank you for your posts. Like I said I really am trying to be more open, and I appreciate what you guys said. :)

 

I think this is just a sign that you are not called to a community with such an apostolate. :) It doesn't mean that no one ever is, just that it's probably not for you.

 

God bless you in your discernment.

[EmilyAnn]

It can be very easy when discerning to fall into a sort of spiritual snobbery. It is all too easy to think that the apostolates, spiritualities, etc. that one is drawn to are somehow "better" than others. It's natural in a way, because we see the beauty more in what we are drawn to than in what we are not drawn to. I think the same can be applied to habits: some feel drawn to them, others do not. And that is okay! In fact it's great: like the different apostolates and spiritualities a wonderful sign of the diversity of the Church and of religious life. We do a great disservice to religious life when we reduce it to any single aspect of their life, or make such sweeping judgements about consecrated men and women based on external details. 

[Spem in alium]

I agree with nunsense, and I would also add that I find comments like 'what would these sisters know about it' to be insulting and quite patronising. The first woman in the USA to get a PhD in computer science was a nun, Sr Mary Kenneth Keller. Sisters are often very well-qualified in their fields, whether through having a high level of education, or simply through lived experience, and I wouldn't judge them for lack of knowledge about their apostolate without knowing them and their lives very well first. (And if we did know them very well, we'd probably lose the inclination to judge - that tends to happen once you really get to know someone.)

Great points. :)

 

I didn't explain myself very well. What I meant to say was not that I have to make assumptions, but that with the experience I've had, I inevitably wind up making assumptions. Of course, thats not to say that I can't stop myself from making them, but that naturally I wind up making them.

 

I am trying to work on being more open. It really is a great leap of faith to actually visit this community I am planning on visiting; I have zero attraction to them but my spiritual director has asked me to visit them. 

 

Beatitude and Spem in Alium, thank you for your posts. Like I said I really am trying to be more open, and I appreciate what you guys said. :)

 

You are welcome. I'm sorry I didn't quite catch on to what you were saying :) I can understand what that's like, in a way. Our experiences do, at times, lead us to make inevitable judgements. I think the visit you're planning to make shows a good level of openness, because you are not doing so based on your own underlying preferences. I can relate to that in a way - as I believe I mentioned earlier, I never thought I would be attracted to this particular community. I went on retreat with them not because I wanted to discern with them, but because I knew some of the sisters and knew I'd feel bad if I didn't go. Now they sound like dumb reasons :P Turns out I had a great time on the retreat and am now having spiritual direction with the community. So I guess God works in mysterious ways, we just need to be open to the mystery :) Thank you for all your contributions here, they've been very valuable.

 

It can be very easy when discerning to fall into a sort of spiritual snobbery. It is all too easy to think that the apostolates, spiritualities, etc. that one is drawn to are somehow "better" than others. It's natural in a way, because we see the beauty more in what we are drawn to than in what we are not drawn to. I think the same can be applied to habits: some feel drawn to them, others do not. And that is okay! In fact it's great: like the different apostolates and spiritualities a wonderful sign of the diversity of the Church and of religious life. We do a great disservice to religious life when we reduce it to any single aspect of their life, or make such sweeping judgements about consecrated men and women based on external details. 

 

Wow, what a wise post. It's definitely very easy to do that. Thanks, EA :)

[Little Flower]

You are welcome. I'm sorry I didn't quite catch on to what you were saying :) I can understand what that's like, in a way. Our experiences do, at times, lead us to make inevitable judgements. I think the visit you're planning to make shows a good level of openness, because you are not doing so based on your own underlying preferences. I can relate to that in a way - as I believe I mentioned earlier, I never thought I would be attracted to this particular community. I went on retreat with them not because I wanted to discern with them, but because I knew some of the sisters and knew I'd feel bad if I didn't go. Now they sound like dumb reasons :P Turns out I had a great time on the retreat and am now having spiritual direction with the community. So I guess God works in mysterious ways, we just need to be open to the mystery :) Thank you for all your contributions here, they've been very valuable.

 

No haha when I reread my post I realized that I had misspoken, so anyone reading it would have come to the same conclusions you did; it was my fault :P

 

Thanks a lot, I really appreciate your charity and everything you've said :)

[Spem in alium]

No haha when I reread my post I realized that I had misspoken, so anyone reading it would have come to the same conclusions you did; it was my fault :P

 

Thanks a lot, I really appreciate your charity and everything you've said :)

:) Aw, you're welcome. Thank you very much for that. Is your visit with the community happening anytime soon? I will remember you in prayer.

[Little Flower]

:) Aw, you're welcome. Thank you very much for that. Is your visit with the community happening anytime soon? I will remember you in prayer.

Nothings exactly definite, but I'm trying to arrange for a visit in late June, so a little less than a month. The weekend I asked for they said they thought would work but they would have to check and get back to me.