Since We've Been Talking About Lgbtq Stuff A Lot Lately...

[LinaSt.Cecilia2772]

I'm going to make another thread about it.

 

I came across this link from a friend on Facebook, and it seemed very interesting as far as seeing a new perspective, and I felt like it related to a lot of the stuff that Phatmassers have been talking about lately.

 

http://www.thechristianleftblog.org/1/post/2012/10/the-cross-in-the-closet.html

 

Timothy Kurek, raised within the confines of a strict, conservative Christian denomination in the Bible Belt, Nashville, Tennessee, was taught the gospel of separation from a young age. But it wasn't long before Timothy's path and the outside world converged when a friend came out as a lesbian, and revealed she had been excommunicated by her family. Distraught and overcome with questions and doubts about his religious upbringing, Timothy decided the only way to empathize and understand her pain was to walk in the shoes of very people he had been taught to shun. He decided to come out as a gay man to everyone in his life, and to see for himself how the label of gay would impact his life. In the tradition of Black Like Me, The Cross in the Closet is a story about people, a story about faith, and about one man's "abominable" quest to find Jesus in the margins.

 

 

Here's also the book trailer that's on the website.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4R6qIIvYEqs

 

 

Thoughts? Would any of you read the book? 

[Era Might]

His basic point about phariseeism is important, but the rest of what he says seems like a modern desire for therapeutic self-expression. I don't think closets are necessarily bad...who isn't in a closet, in some way? That's what confessionals are for. Reminds me of a Protestant preacher I saw on TV years ago, one of the more interesting televangelist personalities, but he was saying that when you have a lustful thought you should tell the person you just had it, and maybe you'll think twice the next time!...he was half joking, but that's what this reminds me of. People don't need to know everything that goes on inside you...how could they? That's not to say it's necessarily wrong to tell someone what's going on inside you, but the whole "coming out of the closet" thing is something different IMO.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Era Might

[CatherineM]

Coming out of the closet is putting a label on yourself. Can you imagine going to a party and having people introduce themselves with their sexual practices? Hi, I'm Jennifer and I like to have sex with strange men in bar bathrooms. Nice to meet you, I'm Maxine and I'm more into teasing guys to get them to smack me around.

[Aloysius]

eh, to be fair, coming out of the closet is more like telling friends and family to expect you to be in romantic relationships with someone of the same sex, or even that you're already in such a relationship.  it's not about advertising your sexual preferences so much as it's about advertising your relationship/romantic preferences, which is an entirely normal topic of conversation.

 

I mean, I get what you're saying about how people tend to reductively over identify themselves by the one aspect, but it's not entirely fair to accuse them of over identifying based on sex per se, "coming out" is usually about them wanting to bring their romantic partner around and be identified as a couple et cetera.

[Era Might]

eh, to be fair, coming out of the closet is more like telling friends and family to expect you to be in romantic relationships with someone of the same sex, or even that you're already in such a relationship.  it's not about advertising your sexual preferences so much as it's about advertising your relationship/romantic preferences, which is an entirely normal topic of conversation.

 

I mean, I get what you're saying about how people tend to reductively over identify themselves by the one aspect, but it's not entirely fair to accuse them of over identifying based on sex per se, "coming out" is usually about them wanting to bring their romantic partner around and be identified as a couple et cetera.

 

I don't think there is any obligation to accept someone's relationship. I think there's ways to about this situation, but if I had a son or a daughter in a homosexual relationship, I wouldn't recognize it. I wouldn't shun them, I'd still love them, still talk to them, but treating their relationship like it's okay? I wouldn't. And they need to accept that. We're all adults, there's no need for me to be involved in every area of your life.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Era Might

[Papist]

I never understood why people define themselves by their sexual preferences. I believe it is mostly b/c the psychologically correct professionals are telling them that is who they are.

 

[cappie]

I think the story is  a bit odd. But speaking from my experience, in the background for me I can admit that even though I have been a priest for 29 years I have a continual fear of rejection like I am on the outside looking in. I always kind of feel out of place like I don't quite fit. So I can have some empathy with people who are conflicted with "coming Out" (How I hate that phrase!) In many of the debates I believe it is like the church wants to protect Jesus' image rather than proclaim the real and living Christ. We want to protect him from the appearance of doing things that wouldn't fit into today's church culture. I think Jesus is a God who goes after those who live in the margins. The question we are faced with as Christians is, “will we follow him?” I try.

 

[Aloysius]

it's entirely a different story how you recognize/don't recognize their relationships, the point of them "coming out" is that they want to openly have such relationships, not have them in secret or whatever.  a regular boy-girl couple holding hands isn't trying to announce their sexual preferences to the world, and likewise not everyone "coming out" is merely trying to announce their sexual preferences or identify themselves by their sexual preferences (some are, I suppose).  they're more trying to identify what their romantic relationships are to the people around them.  many gay people are overly identifying themselves by their sexual preferences, as are many promiscuous straight people.

 

Barney Stinson, for instance, is a straight character that I would say overly identifies himself by his sexual preferences.  But I don't see Neil Patrick Harris as overly identifying himself by 'sexual preference' just because he openly identifies himself as together with (I think they consider themselves married?) another guy.  I don't think him introducing that fact is an attempt to shout to the world "I have sex with this guy!", it's more an attempt to identify himself as 'in a relationship' entirely including and encompassing all the non-sexual stuff that entails.  I think it's just not entirely fair to broadly paint people who want to "come out" as if what they're doing is merely trying to "announce their sexual preferences" or even merely "identify by their sexual preferences"... I think they're more trying to openly express that they have romantic relationships with members of the same sex when they "come out", if you get what I mean.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Aloysius

[4588686]

 

Coming out of the closet is putting a label on yourself. Can you imagine going to a party and having people introduce themselves with their sexual practices? Hi, I'm Jennifer and I like to have sex with strange men in bar bathrooms. Nice to meet you, I'm Maxine and I'm more into teasing guys to get them to smack me around.

I know that you are a straight woman. I don't know anything close to that specific about the sex life you have with your husband. You analogy doesn't work. You come out of the straight closet every time you mention that you're married to a man. Why is it suddenly tmi when gay people do that? Moreover, coming out of the closet doesn't usually entail announcing your sexual orientation to everybody you meet. It just means not hiding it.

[4588686]

I don't think there is any obligation to accept someone's relationship. I think there's ways to about this situation, but if I had a son or a daughter in a homosexual relationship, I wouldn't recognize it. I wouldn't shun them, I'd still love them, still talk to them, but treating their relationship like it's okay? I wouldn't. And they need to accept that. We're all adults, there's no need for me to be involved in every area of your life.

 

 

You're not even Catholic anymore.  On what grounds would you do something as awful as telling your child that you reject something completely central to their life?  

[Era Might]

You're not even Catholic anymore.  On what grounds would you do something as awful as telling your child that you reject something completely central to their life?  

 

I'm Catholic. I don't think it's awful to tell your children that you have a road to follow, and cannot follow them down a road. I think the family relationship in general is too romanticized, not just in this regard. I look at parenthood as a journey to set your children on their own journey, not to try to take the same journey. Friendship is not essential to be a parent, though it is nice if, as adults, you can be friends with your kids.

[LinaSt.Cecilia2772]

it's entirely a different story how you recognize/don't recognize their relationships, the point of them "coming out" is that they want to openly have such relationships, not have them in secret or whatever.  a regular boy-girl couple holding hands isn't trying to announce their sexual preferences to the world, and likewise not everyone "coming out" is merely trying to announce their sexual preferences or identify themselves by their sexual preferences (some are, I suppose).  they're more trying to identify what their romantic relationships are to the people around them.  many gay people are overly identifying themselves by their sexual preferences, as are many promiscuous straight people.

 

Barney Stinson, for instance, is a straight character that I would say overly identifies himself by his sexual preferences.  But I don't see Neil Patrick Harris as overly identifying himself by 'sexual preference' just because he openly identifies himself as together with (I think they consider themselves married?) another guy.  I don't think him introducing that fact is an attempt to shout to the world "I have sex with this guy!", it's more an attempt to identify himself as 'in a relationship' entirely including and encompassing all the non-sexual stuff that entails.  I think it's just not entirely fair to broadly paint people who want to "come out" as if what they're doing is merely trying to "announce their sexual preferences" or even merely "identify by their sexual preferences"... I think they're more trying to openly express that they have romantic relationships with members of the same sex when they "come out", if you get what I mean.

 

I agree with you on this. There are both experiences at hand, and it is unfair to classify those who don't over identify with those who do.

[Basilisa Marie]

The reason why "coming out" is even a thing is because everyone assumes that you're straight by default.  Even if you were a celibate non-heterosexual, it'd probably be a good idea to "come out" to your friends and family if they keep hounding you about "settling down and starting a family."  Coming out can mean anything from "I am in a relationship and you must approve!" to "Hey, your assumptions about my sexuality aren't true."  

 

It seems to me that some Catholics are uniquely suited to understanding what it's like to come out to one's family, with so many young people nervous about telling their families that they aren't called to married life.  

[ChristinaTherese]

The reason why "coming out" is even a thing is because everyone assumes that you're straight by default.  Even if you were a celibate non-heterosexual, it'd probably be a good idea to "come out" to your friends and family if they keep hounding you about "settling down and starting a family."  Coming out can mean anything from "I am in a relationship and you must approve!" to "Hey, your assumptions about my sexuality aren't true."  

 

It seems to me that some Catholics are uniquely suited to understanding what it's like to come out to one's family, with so many young people nervous about telling their families that they aren't called to married life.  

Methinks.... Yes.

[cappie]

The reason why "coming out" is even a thing is because everyone assumes that you're straight by default.  Even if you were a celibate non-heterosexual, it'd probably be a good idea to "come out" to your friends and family if they keep hounding you about "settling down and starting a family."  Coming out can mean anything from "I am in a relationship and you must approve!" to "Hey, your assumptions about my sexuality aren't true."  

 

It seems to me that some Catholics are uniquely suited to understanding what it's like to come out to one's family, with so many young people nervous about telling their families that they aren't called to married life.  

 

The Christian manner of loving always first tries to comprehend what is going on in the heart of the other. This manner of seeing others allows them to realize they are loved. And love makes it possible for them to share. This is how Christ looks at you and me. It is a glance that cares, and therefore also makes a difference.

 

 

[Papist]

I am not following. Are you saying love is love and that can never be a bad thing?

[Apotheoun]

A person should never turn a disordered passion into a personally defining characteristic.

[LittleWaySoul]

I know that you are a straight woman. I don't know anything close to that specific about the sex life you have with your husband. You analogy doesn't work. You come out of the straight closet every time you mention that you're married to a man. Why is it suddenly tmi when gay people do that? Moreover, coming out of the closet doesn't usually entail announcing your sexual orientation to everybody you meet. It just means not hiding it.

 

The reason why "coming out" is even a thing is because everyone assumes that you're straight by default.  Even if you were a celibate non-heterosexual, it'd probably be a good idea to "come out" to your friends and family if they keep hounding you about "settling down and starting a family."  Coming out can mean anything from "I am in a relationship and you must approve!" to "Hey, your assumptions about my sexuality aren't true."  

 

It seems to me that some Catholics are uniquely suited to understanding what it's like to come out to one's family, with so many young people nervous about telling their families that they aren't called to married life.  

 

THIS

Edited May 22, 2013 by LittleWaySoul

[MarysLittleFlower]

hmm.. I don't know. If someone says that they have SSA, - imo treat them like everyone else, and with love. If they intend to have same sex relationships or already do, I'd still treat them with love but I wouldn't agree or pretend to agree with the relationships or the desire for them etc. There's a difference between loving the sinner and loving the sin. Loving the sinner means not wanting them to sin, not accepting that.

 

(I haven't watched the video yet so this is more of a response to the topic than the video!)

Edited May 23, 2013 by MarysLittleFlower

[God the Father]

I love the "Q," as if considering the possibility of being attracted to someone of the same sex qualifies you as a member of a minority group in need of support.