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graciandelamadrededios

The Habit Of Poor Clare Colettines Before Vatican Ii

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graciandelamadrededios

THE RULE OF ST. CLARE

AND

THE CONSTITUTIONS

FOR POOR CLARE NUNS

OF THE

REFORM OF ST. COLETTE

1932

 

 

CHAPTER II.

Of the Quality of the Habit and of the other Garments

20. - Since the Rule of Form of life lays down that the Sisters be clothed with poor garments, we ordain and decree that this poverty, both with respect to price and colour, be attended to.

21. - Although it is laid down in the Form of life that the Abbess shall supply and provide the person who enters, on her laying aside her secular dress, with three tunics and a mantle, nevertheless, if necessity or infirmity, or any circumstances of person or of place or time should cause any one to need more garments, we declare that the Abbess shall provide the Sisters with garments according to the qualities according to the qualities of persons and places and times and cold climates, as necessity may seem to require.

22. - It is to be understood that the three tunics mentioned in the Form of life need not be of the same form or shape, since the two inner tunics are allowed, not so much as being part of the Habit of the Order as for the comfort and heat and decency of the body; nor need they be of the same colour.

23. - Wherefore, we direct and ordain that the outer tunic be designated as the Habit of the Order, without which the Sisters may not appear in public, nor retire to sleep, unless illness or infirmity or any other manifest necessity, which has been declared to be sufficient either by the Abbess or her Vicaress, should warrant them to act otherwise.

24. - Let the length of the habit be such that, when worn, it shall not exceed the stature of the person who wears it and train along the ground; and the width shall not exceed fourteen palms. The sleeves shall not extend beyond the first finger joints.

25. - The inner tunics shall be of poor cloth, and may not be lined with skins or furs.

26. - The mantle also shall always be of poor and course cloth, and shall not be gathered or pleated about the neck; nor so long as to train in anyway along the ground.

27. - Let plainness, austerity and poverty, both with respect to texture, cost and colour, be always apparent in all the garments of the Sisters.

28. - Let all the Sisters, both the Abbesses and other Officials, be clad with the same common cloth, and let all partiality be excluded.

29. - The cord, with which the Sisters are girt, shall be plain and common, and shall be free from all manner of singularity.

30. - For the rest, with regard to the covering of the head, we prescribe and ordain that all the Sisters, both the Abbesses as well as the other professed members, without any distinction whatever, shall in all humility, modesty and piety, cover their heads and avoid singularity and vanity of all kinds.

31. - That this be the better observed at all times and by all Sisters in their Convents in every place, we decree that all the Sisters shall so adjust their kerchiefs, that the forehead, both cheeks and the chin shall be for the greater part covered, so that their faces may be in no wise entirely seen.

32. - Besides, the veils and all the kerchiefs that are worn on the head and about the neck shall be so arranged that they cover all the head, the greater part of the chest and the corresponding part of the body at the back.

33. - Furthermore, we direct that all veils and kerchiefs be of common, course and plain linen, so that the holy poverty and austerity of their profession may ever shine forth in them.

34. - Moreover, in order that cleanliness be always attended to, we declare that each Sister, with the consent and permission of her Abbess, may have two black veils and two or three changes of white kerchiefs.

35. - Let all the Sisters beware lest they have pleated kerchiefs, or kerchiefs of silk or of any other costly material.

36. - Finally, no novice may wear the black veil before she has made her profession, but she shall wear the white kerchiefs, suitably arranged according to the direction of the Abbess, as has been heretofore the custom.

 

Photos of Poor Clare Colettine Nuns before Vatican II

 

 

http://nunsandsisters.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/n25.jpg

 

n25.jpg

 

 

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxew5yfA0r1r11k11o1_500.jpg

 

tumblr_lxew5yfA0r1r11k11o1_500.jpg

 

 

 

http://home.scarlet.be/~hv023068/Triumviraat/Karel/Gudula_I/Gudula11aw.jpg

 

Gudula11aw.jpg

 

 

 

 

http://users.telenet.be/heemkundekringrosmeer/images/geestelijkenRosmeer/zusterMariaJulianaStevens.jpg

 

zusterMariaJulianaStevens.jpg

 

 

 The Poor Clare Colettines of Hawarden, Wales made adaptation to the Habit after Vatican II:

 

 

tymamduwwithbishop.jpg

 

 

The Ty Mam Duw Poor Clare Colettine had changed the way they wore their kerchief after Vatican II.  They now have a simple coif covering the hair but not the side of the face.  Their neck if partially covered with a white kerchief which also covers the shoulder or shall I say draped the shoulders.  Since Vatican II stipulates to take into consideration the customs of the country where the monastery is situated; this is their interpretation of the kerchief – the national custome of women in Wales. If you type in google “national custome of women in wales” you will see that women draped kerchiefs on their customes.  The photo posted on the forum clearly shows the nuns neck is only partially covered while during Vatican II, the neck and the side of the face were completely covered if you based it from the Pre-Vatican II photos of Ty Mam Duw Poor Clares in their website.

Traditional Welsh Custome for Women:

Welsh%20Women%20at%20tea.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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OnlySunshine

It's interesting to see the way the habit has evolved since the time of St. Clare.  I love the current habit.  I like that it doesn't cover the chin (that would be irritating to me) anymore.  I also like that the bib collar is not as long.  :)

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nikita92
My absolute favorite as far as design goes, is Mother Angelica's Poor Clares!! The square headgear..around the face! I agree.. NO chin covering though.

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Eowyn

The old habit looks mighty uncomfortable  :huh:

 

 

A lot of them look that way.

 

Can you imagine driving with this headgear?

 

daughters-of-charity.jpg

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Kateri89

A lot of them look that way.

Can you imagine driving with this headgear?

daughters-of-charity.jpg


Haha imagine trying to switch lanes lol...what was the purpose of those 'veils' anyway?

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Chiquitunga

Haha imagine trying to switch lanes lol...what was the purpose of those 'veils' anyway?

 

for flying of course! :cupid: so they didn't need to drive! :smile3:

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graciandelamadrededios

Haha imagine trying to switch lanes lol...what was the purpose of those 'veils' anyway?

 

The Daughters of Charity of Saint Vincent de Paul were wearing cornette - the sisters adopted them from peasant women in France few years after the company was founded.  It protects them from the sun.

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AnneLine

 I loved you comments about the Daughters of Charity Cornette:

 

A lot of them look that way.

 

Can you imagine driving with this headgear?

 

daughters-of-charity.jpg

 

 

Haha imagine trying to switch lanes lol...what was the purpose of those 'veils' anyway?

 

 I went to high school with the Daughters just after they changed from the cornette to their intial modified habit (below).   Any one of those sisters would have given you 'the look' if you had referred to her cornette as a veil!  Because.... they were founded by St. Vincent De Paul, and they were specifically founded WITHOUT a veil.  Because.... he had seen what had happened to the Visitation Nuns who were founded by Sts. Francis de Sales and Jane Frances de Chantal a few years before that.  St. Francis had wanted them to be able to go out and do a limited ministry of visiting the sick and poor (hence the 'Visitation' nuns)... but when they submitted the rules to Rome, Rome quickly replied they were nuns -- veils and vows made nuns, and nuns had to be cloistered.  So....NO outside ministry!  

 

(That's also why there are two 'ways' of being Visitation Nuns -- First and Second Federation - Strictly enclosed, the First Federation, and those with an external ministry ala what was originally planned by St. Francis, the Second Federation).

 

When St. Vincent heard what happened to St. Francis' nuns, he is reported to have said, "Well, if veils and vows make nuns, and nuns have to be cloistered, our 'Servants of the Poor' will NOT wear veils, and they will NOT take permanent vows.  So they will NOT have to be cloistered!" 

 

The Daughters of Charity of St. Vincent to this day do NOT take permanent vows... they take vows that are renewed each year on March 25.   And they adopted the clothing worn by the poor girls who had come from the countryside - blue dresses, white collars, and the Cornette, the distinctive garb of the peasants near Paris.   Very much theye way Mother Teresa's sisters adopted their sari as their habit.

 

However, as the Daughters would have told you, the cornettes just weren't practical in modern life.  They were difficult to keep clean, wilted in fog, heat, rain, etc.   And they were impossible to drive in (which wasn't a problem until mid-century, because they weren't allowed to drive.).  So... when the Vatican asked women religious IN THE LATE 1950s to adapt their habits to modern conditions, they did exactly what they were asked.  They were gifted by the designer Dior (who had always respected them!) with a well-designed habit.   This is what it looked like originally:

 

srrose.jpg?w=332&h=450

 

szarytki.jpg

 

 

The sisters were very clear that it was NOT a veil - it was 'headgear' or a 'hat' because of the request of their founder.

 

Unfortuantely the headpeace was made of metal, and a lot of the sisters developed ear problems because of the pressure on their ears.... so it was modified to this:

 

depaul-1983-mayor-bridgeton-with-sisters

 

and later just to a simple button down dress with the veil.  simple headgear.

 

for flying of course! :cupid: so they didn't need to drive! :smile3:

 

he he he    You are, of course, thinking of The Flying Nun.... and of the wonderful book The 15th Pelican!  It was the very sweet book that the concept of The Flying Nun came from... and was a better story.  I'd recommend that to ANYONE!

 

41Jg7Y8PY6L._SY300_.jpg

 

Edited by AnneLine

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Chiquitunga

This is Blessed Marie Celine of the Presentation, PCC - http://forums.catholic.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5181&d=1234343580

 

She was a PCC but her habit is different from other pre-VII PCC habits posted here. Her chin is not covered for one thing. These are not actual photos of her, but I think it can be assumed this was how their habit looked. I think the only photo of her is the one before she entered here, http://lafranclaire.free.fr/Photos.html  

 

DSC02744.jpg

 

picture of the community from that site

 

from the book .. https://tanbooks.benedictpress.com/index.php/Blessed-Marie-Celine-of-Presentation

 


"The Monastery of the Ave Maria [beautiful name!!] of Talence was brand new when Germain entered. The Poor Clare Colettines from Grenoble had moved in during 1893, and the arrangement of the convent was still in process."

 

Anyway, so it seems there were some variations among the PCCs. I like her habit :like: They also have a scapular like the PCPAs. Separate question, is this by chance considered a Brown Scapular of Our Lady of Mt. Carmel by the PCPAs or other Poor Clares that where them?

 

These PCs (not sure if they're Colettine or not) from the video Desire posted in the wedding dress thread also have them. Love this  :heart:

 

http://youtu.be/IEMLcs43Bz4
 

 

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truthfinder

 

This is Blessed Marie Celine of the Presentation, PCC - http://forums.catholic.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5181&d=1234343580

 

She was a PCC but her habit is different from other pre-VII PCC habits posted here. Her chin is not covered for one thing. These are not actual photos of her, but I think it can be assumed this was how their habit looked. I think the only photo of her is the one before she entered here, http://lafranclaire.free.fr/Photos.html  

 

 

picture of the community from that site

 

from the book .. https://tanbooks.benedictpress.com/index.php/Blessed-Marie-Celine-of-Presentation

 

 

Anyway, so it seems there were some variations among the PCCs. I like her habit :like: They also have a scapular like the PCPAs. Separate question, is this by chance considered a Brown Scapular of Our Lady of Mt. Carmel by the PCPAs or other Poor Clares that where them?

 

These PCs (not sure if they're Colettine or not) from the video Desire posted in the wedding dress thread also have them. Love this  :heart:

 

http://youtu.be/IEMLcs43Bz4

 

 

Are you sure she was PCC and not OSC? The website refers to her as a Clarisse - which the francophones I know who use the term to mean OSC and would explain why there was no kerchief.

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Antigonos

A lot of them look that way.

 

Can you imagine driving with this headgear?

 

daughters-of-charity.jpg

 

They couldn't.  Of course, the habit antedates cars.

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Chiquitunga

Are you sure she was PCC and not OSC? The website refers to her as a Clarisse - which the francophones I know who use the term to mean OSC and would explain why there was no kerchief.

 

That's what I wondered, but then it says specifically in the book I quoted above that they were Poor Clare Colettines.

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AnneLine

Just Because it is relevant to the discussion..... last December I asked Sr. Emma (in her thread) about this before she went into the PCCs... and she gave us a pretty good answer.

 

Here was my original question:

 

===============================================

 

Posted 18 December 2012 - 08:14 PM

Emma, I'm curious....

 

Obviously the PCCs wear the traditional habit -- but even those are sometimes modified a bit.

 

I've seen old pictures of what I believe were PCCs with a different style of white headgear. Some photos show almost a strip OVER the chin (almost like aforehead cover, but on the chin area--was this modified after Vatican II?

 

Mother%20Veronica.jpg

 

It appears also on this holy card for St. Collette...

 

st_colette1.jpg

 

 

 

and then some of them seem to have much more white material over the shoulders, almost like a capelet of some sort. The pictures you posted recently (here is one) of some of the historical photos seem to show the bigger coif/guimpe. I'm just curious....

 

Screen%2520shot%25202012-12-16%2520at%25

 

 

 

And it looks a lot more like what the Welsh Poor Clare Colettines currently wear... and would explain why their habit looks different...

 

_38412885_newnunsone300.jpg

 

The%20Sisters%204-08.jpg

 

Do you know what the story is?

 

===============================================

 

and this is what she responded:

 

===============================================

 

Hi AnneLine! Hmm I cannot comment on the larger cappa(esque) white piece, except that each Monastery is autonomous, and this extends to habits, so each community interprets what the habit of their Monastery is to look like-assuming there is a habit, of course! So maybe there is some debate over whether St Clare's habit had the capelet.. Or it could be that it was the French habit "trend" and was brought forth by St Colette,

 

Found this to explain the chin covering:

 

THE RULE OF ST. CLARE AND THE CONSTITUTIONS FOR POOR CLARE NUNS OF THE REFORM OF ST. COLETTE
 
CHAPTER II
 
Of the Quality of the Habit and of the other Garments.
 
That this be the better observed at all times and by all the Sisters in their Convents in every place, we decree that all the Sisters shall so adjust their kerchiefs, that the forehead, both cheeks and the chin shall be for the greater part covered, so that their faces may be in no wise entirely seen.
 

 

Yes, I believe it was done away with in Vatican II.. Just for fun, here is a picture of Mother Francis with the chin covering:

 

mfm5.jpg

 

 

===============================================

 

 

One of you noted earlier in this thread that the Welsh PCCs have adapted their guimpe to look more like the clothing of the traditional welsh poor... which makes COMPLETE sense, given that they are the POOR ladies!

 

 

I don't know about Celine of the Trinity... it sure looks like a regular OSC habit to me... could be that they were one of the stricter groups of OSCs?

 

 

 

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