"i Need Feminism Because..." Cambridge University Students Sha

[Lil Red]

I don't care what people say, intelligence is attractive.

 

:hehe: 

[Basilisa Marie]

I suppose if you want to redefine "feminist" to mean anyone who loves and respects women, then yeah, we all should be raging feminists.

 

However, feminism usually refers to a particular ideology (or set of related ideologies) that generally wants to erase or minimize gender differences or sex roles in society.

 

However, there are many people (both men and women) who believe in more traditional sex roles for men and women who do not consider themselves feminist, yet are not at all hateful or misogynist.

 

The whole idea that either you are a feminist or else are a misogynist who thinks women should not have rights is bogus.

 

Right! We're all raging feminists! :)

 

Nah, see, I don't think feminism actually does refer to a particular ideology (or set of them) that want to erase gender differences.  Some people do think feminism is only about man-hating, baby-killing women, but again it's not fair to characterize all of feminism like that.  New Feminists are HUGE proponents of traditional gender roles; a lot of Catholic feminists are New Feminists.  I think it might be something that would jive with your beliefs. 

I get not wanting to associate yourself with feminism, if the feminism you're thinking about is the nasty kind.  But I think you might be missing out on the good parts of different feminist movements.  

[PhuturePriest]

:hehe:

 

You'd be laughing even more if you say the unedited version. :P

[Sister Marie]

Did anyone watch "Girl Rising" on CNN on Sunday night?  It is a documentary about women's education told through the eyes of girls and young women throughout the world.  It was beautiful and I think if you watched it you might see an inspiring side of feminism, not as a political ideology, but as an attempt to make up for the loss of dignity and humanity women have suffered and are still suffering throughout the world and to end that cycle of suffering through education.

 

I found it particularly beautiful since education is my thing and I'm a woman.  Anyway, it was very well done.

 

[DiscerningCatholic]

I do not like the way the media stereotypes anyone.

I truly hope that you dont watch all these movies and believe the stereotypes of feed into them. Just because you see it in a movie doesnt mean it is true.

Stereotypes are formed and fed by the media which everyone is exposed to, we must resist! Or at LEAST realize that they are NOT an accurate representation of society. People are much more colorful than that.

 

Not all women fit the barbie, homemaker, child rearing stereotype.

Just as not all men fit the strong, hardworking, breadwinner stereotype.

 

I watch hardly any TV (saint movies aside) BECAUSE of that reason. The stereotypes bother me enough to keep me from supporting it. 

[DiscerningCatholic]

 

I'm a ditz...so sue me. :P

[photosynthesis]

I know I'm not one of the two posters you're questioning, but I think the one about rape was particularly inane.

 

I'm not at all feminist (at least not in any sense the word would commonly be used on your typical modern college campus), however I am 100% against rape, which I find an utterly horrific and despicable act.  If I caught a would-be rapist, I would try to beat him to a bloody pulp.  All other traditional conservative non-feminist men I know feel the same way.

 

I also know many women (including my wife) who do not identify as feminists who would certainly in no way condone or accept rape.

 

The idea that people who are not feminists are all hateful, misogynist brutes (or else, weak, self-loathing women) who have no problem with rape is complete nonsense and garbage.

 

I also don't believe modern feminism has done jack squat to lessen occurrences of rape or prevent men from being rapists.  I think the old-fashioned ideals of chivalry and honor, in which raping a woman would bring immense shame and dishonor to a man, has a stronger positive effect than any modern feminist "gender studies" babbling about oppression.

 

After all, the casual hook-up, date-rape, bang-as-many-chicks-as-you-can-however-you-can-get-em culture is much more a feature of the modern post-feminist age, than of the pre-feminist "bad old days."

 

 

 

I also don't think there's anything wrong with a woman thinking finding a good man is more important than a good school.   Modern feminism has unfortunately demeaned the importance of marriage and family in the minds of many.

 

I very much agree with this.  As a rape survivor, it bugs me that nearly all advocates for sexual assault victims are feminists.  While there are different branches and 'waves' of feminism, one of the ideas that I was spoonfed as a Womyn's Studies undergrad was the idea that "rape culture" is caused by patriarchal ideas about men being heads of their households and expecting women to obey them.  Can this system be abused?  Yes.  Is it overall beneficial to women, for the most part?  Yes.  Feminists also believe that Christian attitudes toward modesty oppress women and perpetuate rape culture.

 

2nd wave feminists in particular were instrumental in opening up the discussion about sexual assault... making it acceptable for women to talk candidly about their bodies, and about sexual violence.  In some ways I appreciate this.  However, feminists do not have to control all discourse about sexual assault.  Not all survivors are feminists, and not all of them are women, even.

 

 

 

True feminism = what the feminism is actually about. It's about equality and women's rights as human beings. Equality does not equal sameness, and it does not equal treating men and women as if there are no differences. There are differences, but they are complimentary to each other (Unless we're talking about the nine million soaps they have in the bathroom. That's simply not complimentary), and we should respect the differences for what they are. But having differences doesn't mean one is above the other, either.

 

Anyway, that, to me, is what feminism represents. It doesn't represent marriage equality, declaring that women are in charge of their bodies and men have no say, and it doesn't mean conveying a despising attitude towards men. Hating men is the last thing the feminist leaders wanted to happen. They wanted equality and fairness and to stop hate, not simply turn the tables.

 

I see what you're getting at.  There are some pro life feminist organizations that talk a lot about how the earliest feminists were pro-life, including Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Cady Stanton.  However, those ideas are VERY not mainstream in the feminist community.  In fact, I wrote a paper as women's studies major at my college about pro-life early feminists, and my advisor (the WS department chair at the time) asked me to leave the major. 

 

 

[photosynthesis]

i think there is more and more a movement toward including feminists of all stripes - including pro-life feminists. (an influential feminist, Camile Paglia, has argued that the major feminist movement needs to do so.)

 

But that would mean "tolerating" people who have beliefs different than their own.  

[PhuturePriest]

 

I see what you're getting at.  There are some pro life feminist organizations that talk a lot about how the earliest feminists were pro-life, including Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Cady Stanton.  However, those ideas are VERY not mainstream in the feminist community.  In fact, I wrote a paper as women's studies major at my college about pro-life early feminists, and my advisor (the WS department chair at the time) asked me to leave the major. 

 

 

 

 

Most Catholics don't know even basic things like the True Presence, and many don't believe in it should they be lucky enough to have been told about it. That doesn't mean the Church as a whole is bad; it just means the members of it are being stupid humans.

[Lil Red]

Did anyone watch "Girl Rising" on CNN on Sunday night?  It is a documentary about women's education told through the eyes of girls and young women throughout the world.  It was beautiful and I think if you watched it you might see an inspiring side of feminism, not as a political ideology, but as an attempt to make up for the loss of dignity and humanity women have suffered and are still suffering throughout the world and to end that cycle of suffering through education.

 

I found it particularly beautiful since education is my thing and I'm a woman.  Anyway, it was very well done.

 

good to have another's viewpoint on the documentary, you never know with docs like that. :) thanks for the recommendation. :) 

[PhuturePriest]

I'm a ditz...so sue me. :P

 

With pleasure. Suing tends to rack up a lot of cash.

[Lil Red]

But that would mean "tolerating" people who have beliefs different than their own.  

 

:unsure: ummm, yeah? okay? :unsure: (not sure where you're going with this.)

[Socrates]

sorry, which one about rape? (I think there was two or three?) 

 

and i guess i don't know which era of old-fashioned ideals you're talking about. 50s? earlier? rape still happened, and men weren't shamed. the women were shamed for "leading him on", dressing like they "asked for it", etc. same reasons child abuse happened. because where you have someone weaker (like women and children), someone more powerful (like men) will often take advantage of them and use their "power" to silence them or intimidate them. 

 

the part I bolded is because I guess I see that as a strawman? (incorrect term maybe?) I don't see anyone arguing that. (of course, I don't know which one about rape you're talking about, so i might not be correct.)

 

(btw, hey! how's it going?)

 

I didn't follow the link - I'm referring to the one with the nerdy guy with the really nasty facial hair.

 

I wasn't really referring to a particular decade, but the whole general pre-'60s era (probably even more so pre-WWI).

Yes, rape happened then, as it still happens now, and likely will happen until Christ returns (along with every other kind of evil act.)  However, I don't think rape is really any less common now.

Your characterization of the "old days" as men not being shamed for rape is actually not accurate.  Rape was regarded then as an evil act, and utterly contrary to the conduct of a gentleman, who according to the chivalric ideal, would do everything to uphold and protect a lady's honor, and conduct oneself in an honorable manner.

 

Of course, there were plenty who did not live up to the chivalric ideals of honor, and cowards who would try to blame the woman, rather than accept their guilt.  There were jerks then as now.

 

My whole point is that one need to be a feminist to oppose rape or respect women, and I don't see feminism as "needed" to oppose rape.

 

The bolded part refers more to the general attitude that if one respects women, he or she is a feminist, or that there are only really feminists and woman-haters.

 

I've seen nothing solid to indicate that there is less rape now in than in the pre-feminist era, and I don't really think women are truly any more respected now.

After all many self-described feminists blast conservatives for opposing abortion, yet are quick to excuse Bill Clinton's picadillos.  

 

Doing okay - still need prayers though.  Another baby on the way . . .

[Socrates]

Right! We're all raging feminists! :)

 

Nah, see, I don't think feminism actually does refer to a particular ideology (or set of them) that want to erase gender differences.  Some people do think feminism is only about man-hating, baby-killing women, but again it's not fair to characterize all of feminism like that.  New Feminists are HUGE proponents of traditional gender roles; a lot of Catholic feminists are New Feminists.  I think it might be something that would jive with your beliefs. 

I get not wanting to associate yourself with feminism, if the feminism you're thinking about is the nasty kind.  But I think you might be missing out on the good parts of different feminist movements.  

 

If the word can be defined to mean anything, then it's meaningless.

 

I do have issues with aspects of feminist ideology beyond simply the pro-abortion man-hating extreme kinds, which is why I don't identify as feminist.

 

I suppose my main point is that no-one should be forced to identify as feminist if they don't choose (simply because they don't hate women), anymore than the definition of feminism needs to be exclusive to pro-abortion man-haters.

 

If feminism means more-or-less whatever you want it to mean, it doesn't mean much, and historically the term carries baggage people may not want to associate with.

In this respect, it's a lot like terms like "liberal" or "conservative."

[HisChildForever]

Why are people spelling women with a y?