Socrates Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Hasnt detroit not even so much as had a conservative government for the last 50 odd years? they are pretty far from being run by libertarians. Detroit is the liberal/statist paradise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 (edited) Anarchism might work in a world where every single person is actually non-aggressive. I'm glad your government has removed the need for prisons. Amazing. Are you saying that the ends justify the means? I suppose we shall abandon the concept of murder as evil, since people seem to keep doing it. Edited August 13, 2013 by Winchester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I think the libertarian anarchic theory (or whatever you prefer to call it, Hasan) deserves to be taken seriously, rather than simply being brushed aside with sarcasm. It is not like any particular contrasting political theory works all that well in the first place. In fact everything else seems to work like absolute garbage. So give some thought to other solutions. Have some intellectual humility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 The criticisms presented aren't legitimate. They're the equivalent of objecting to fornication as immoral because people will always fornicate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Anarchy works, just not as a permanent state of things. True peace is inherently anarchic, because it is based on no earthly authority, but on the claims of truth and good conscience. What we call "peace" is just a balancing of power, so it is not anarchic. Anarchy is always necessary, keeping society on its toes, building settlements on the margins of society (to use an Israeli-Palestinian metaphor). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 (edited) There would be irony if libertarian anarchism were opposed to the written word. Which part of the non-aggression principle do you oppose? well, for example, I believe in positive rights. but i am not so much against "libertarian anarchism" as I am the machinations of political scientists who propose this or that radical system. I have patience for "applied" intellectualism - very little for the other kind. But its better for the world if some things stay locked up in books, where they can remain silly frivolities. An ill omen indeed should they ever get out. tldr: you say you got a real solution, well, you know, we'd all love to see the plan. Edited August 13, 2013 by Lilllabettt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 well, for example, I believe in positive rights. but i am not so much against "libertarian anarchism" as I am the machinations of political scientists who propose this or that radical system. I have patience for "applied" intellectualism - very little for the other kind. But its better for the world if some things stay locked up in books, where they can remain silly frivolities. An ill omen indeed should they ever get out. tldr: you say you got a real solution, well, you know, we'd all love to see the plan. What's your solution to murder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I'm glad your government has removed the need for prisons. Amazing. Are you saying that the ends justify the means? I suppose we shall abandon the concept of murder as evil, since people seem to keep doing it. I'm saying that, like it or not, violence and aggression will always be part of our fallen human condition. You can argue about how to best deal with these realities, but they can't simply be wished away. There is not, and never will be until the Second Coming, a perfect society. Presumably, in a state of anarchy, those in need of imprisonment would be out freely murdering, robbing, and raping. You might regard that situation as preferable to the state "aggression" of cops and prisons, but in any case, in the real world, people won't cease being aggressive and violent simply because you've declared a "non-aggression principle." And, since the Church has never rejected the idea of the state itself as illegitimate (which is far from accepting everything states do as good and just), I really don't think you have the authority to say that all non-anarchists are guilty of believing in "ends justify the means." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 What's your solution to murder? make it unsafe, illegal and rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I'm saying that, like it or not, violence and aggression will always be part of our fallen human condition. You can argue about how to best deal with these realities, but they can't simply be wished away. No one has said they can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 make it unsafe, illegal and rare. You're saying murder will still occur? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 What's your solution to murder? Ideally, nobody would murder. But since we have to deal with the unfortunate realities of original sin and a fallen world, I think it's best that murderers (unless killed in self-defense) be arrested and tried before a court of law, rather than simply killed in vengeance (leading to endless wars of vendetta). We live in the real world, where murder is a reality, rather than a fantasy-land where murder can simply be wished out of existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Ideally, nobody would murder. But since we have to deal with the unfortunate realities of original sin and a fallen world, I think it's best that murderers (unless killed in self-defense) be arrested and tried before a court of law, rather than simply killed in vengeance (leading to endless wars of vendetta). We live in the real world, where murder is a reality, rather than a fantasy-land where murder can simply be wished out of existence. Who do you imagine is saying that murder can be wished out of existence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 I'm glad your government has removed the need for prisons. Amazing. Are you saying that the ends justify the means? I suppose we shall abandon the concept of murder as evil, since people seem to keep doing it. How does a none aggressive society that cannot use coercion put people in a prison? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 How does a none aggressive society that cannot use coercion put people in a prison? What would you propose putting people in prison for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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