Homily: Marriage Is Good, But Celibacy Is Better

[BarbTherese]

Superiority on the personal level does not really come into the question - except in regards to personal holiness in whatever personal vocation one might actually embrace from baptism onwards.  It just might be that a woman for example who chose marriage would make a mess of things because they just don't have the necessary qualities - and marriage especially with children demands very special qualities indeed.  It just might be the woman who chose religious life would make a mess of things if she entered religious life - because she just does not have the qualities and religious life demands some very special qualities indeed.

 

Where do necessary qualities come from - as Scripture and The Church states very clearly for us, good and necessary qualities for each vocation, whatever it might be, come from God.  In my own vocation of single celibate laity, I live alone and I get along fine with it, although never my choice - force of cirumstances.  I have the necessary qualities.  Another person far more holier than I may marry - they have the necessary qualities.

 

There is a very big difference, no comparison in fact, between thinking one has the necessary qualities for a particular vocation -  and then actually living out those imagined qualities in marriage or a religious vocation.  There is the testing and proving ground.  Not on the outside looking in, but through actual experience on the inside.

 

We are discussing all around this subject in the thread on the Dogmatic Constitution of The Church Lumen Gentium in the Transmundane Forum.

[BarbTherese]

I don't agree with the wording of the opening post at all.  I have not watched the video.

 

The Good Lord always answers prayer, but we don't always get the answer in our imagination.  I might, for example, ask for the heights of the Mystical Way in Mystical Marriage or Betrothal, whatever is the correct terminology.  I wouldn't know!  Doesn't mean my prayer will be answered just as I anticipate, but my prayer will be answered.  What I am really asking for is great holiness and if I am faithful all the way to the Grace that is The Lord's response to my prayer, then I will be very holy indeed.  Most of the time with The Graces of The Lord we do all stumble along in our response, rather than a fully faithful and perfect response.  And great holiness usually, not always, will ask great suffering, the Grace of great fortitude and strength, trust and confidence, Faith - and may for a very long period, perhaps even our whole lives.

When I ask for say (were I male) the Grace of celibacy and the priesthood, I am aspiring very high indeed and The Lord knows the heart of things.  What is in our hearts in both a positive and negative manner. The Lord will answer my prayer accordingly, but is under no obligation whatsoever to grant me celibacy and the priesthood.  This puts me in the control seat and not the way things are at all unless of course I defy The Lord.  May The Lord every forbid.  Amen.

If I am male and desire to be a priest, then I should go ahead and begin the journey and see where it leads.  If I don't have a desire to be a priest, then it might be that I am not called to be a priest.  Although I do know of religious vocations anyway that really started out on the left foot without any real attraction for quite a while.

Edited August 17, 2013 by BarbaraTherese

[BG45]

Pholks, the Vocation Station, primarily is used to discuss religious vocations, while the vocation of marriage is primarily discussed elsewhere.  Please try to keep this calm so it doesn't get moved to the Debate Table, which, as Nunsense said, Vocation Station is not.  As the article stated, both the religious life and marriage have their own contributions to the Church.  Personally, as a layman, I'm not going to wade into one being intrinsically better than another.  I'm not a theologian, but I think it might be best served to discuss the topic and homily the good Friar has posted, rather than get too personal. 

[BarbTherese]

Actually, to read from the link the OP gave from the subject heading (scroll down on the link) "Does this mean marriage is inferior?" would make a good discussion. http://religious-vocation.com/index.html  An informative read in the link is (subject heading) "Are all Created for Marriage " and the enlargement on that topic is in the affirmative.

 

And to just calmy discuss things rather than getting heated and personal is an excellent move at all times, I agree.  Jolly great practise for evangelising - learning to avoid any 'barbs and thorns' and stay with the nitty gritty and the subject(and avoiding the ire of dUSt/moderators and getting the thread closed).  Not always easy, I know to avoid the barbs and thorns especially if under personal attack.  Especially on a Catholic Discussion Site, getting negatively personal is not a good move as this is a very public forum on the internet.  We are witnessing to our Catholicism, our Faith - primarily it is a way of life, a way of being in this world.

 

Off me pulpit.......till next time. :rap:

 

Edited August 17, 2013 by BarbaraTherese

[BarbTherese]

..........edit............

 

Every one of us is beloved by God and when we get to heaven, it won't matter what state of life we lived, but how we lived it. :) Peace.

 

Hit the nail right on the head - spot on! :)

[BarbTherese]

I did watch the video, curiousity got the better of me.  The Franciscan priest did rather remind me of the Franciscan who was our chaplain while I was in monastic life in my forties.  Father did pick, in the video, his words from Scripture to support what he intended to state.  The following quotation from Scripture, however, came to mind:

 

 

 

Luke Ch11 : "And I say to you, Ask, and it shall be given you: seek, and you shall find: knock, and it shall be opened to you.  For every one that asketh, receiveth; and he that seeketh, findeth; and to him that knocketh, it shall be opened.

And which of you, if he ask his father bread, will he give him a stone? or a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? [12] Or if he shall ask an egg, will he reach him a scorpion? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father from heaven give the good Spirit to them that ask him."

 

 

The Lord gifts to us what is best for us and at the very same time, mysteriously, it is the best for the whole universe.  Undoubtedly some have longed for a religious vocation and prayed for one ardently, but they have impediments to religious life and are turned away.  They pray ardently for good health and all the right qualities. Is their ardent prayer unanswered - not at all.  Is the answer they receive a positive answer.  Yes, it is the very best of answers.  The problem becomes for such a person "Am I prepared to accept God's Will in this matter or is it my way or I hit the highway?"  Unless it is the answer I want, I reject the answer as my answer.  And what The Lord is stating is "Not religious life" for the person (necessary health and/or qualities are missing).  Along those lines.  Unless I get precisely what I asked for, I reject what is offered as gift since it is contrary to what I want.

 

In the midst of the world's distractions, it can be easy to forget that our central message is The Cross.  I read something quite beautiful yesterday (forgot what I was reading) that suffering in our lives is an overflow of the Sufferings of Jesus into our own lives...........gift.  It is a very real honour to share in the Sufferings of Jesus - the redemptive act that opened Heaven for us.  This can be distasteful to our 'wordly pallet' - to the way we are conditioned into thinking of the facts of life and no one in this life is going to escape suffering in some form or other.  Jesus does not reject suffering, He embraces it though at the time His whole being revolted against it and He begs His Father to spare Him "but not My Will, but Thine be done".

 

I think Father knew what he wanted to state and picked his quotations to support his agenda.  And no real harm in this, we all do it.  Except that there were 'holes' in places in what Father had to state in his presentation/homily.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 17, 2013 by BarbaraTherese

[BarbTherese]

We are all called to Chastity in our lives - some to virginal chastity or marital chastity, celibate chastity (and etc. if there are any other forms of Chastity).  Each, according to their vocation, are called to perfect Chastity in their lives in line with their own vocation.

Edited August 17, 2013 by BarbaraTherese

[MarysLittleFlower]

I'm kind of worried to say anything because it might be misunderstood...

I think that saying that a state of life is higher than another, is not pridefully stating superiority. It's talking about state of life objectively...

I don't know how exactly to interpret this passage, but I'm reminded, of Martha and Mary... Jesus said that Mary had chosen the better part.. not that Martha was bad, or worse personally, but that Mary had chosen the better part.

St Paul also says, he wishes everyone to be like him, and that it's better not to marry.

If it's God's will for someone to marry, that would be their path to holiness. But we're just talking about objective states.

In the link, this is even defined by Trent...

:)

[BarbTherese]

:like3:  Agree

Speaking on the objective theological level, celibacy is superior to a non celibate state.  It does help to explain what that means, that little inoffensive very big meaning word "objective", I think, which I think I did in a previous post.   The Church very firmly proclaims that on the objective theological level, celibacy is superior to non celibacy and states this in various places that are statements of sound Catholic Teaching.

 

But if I (subjective) aspire and even enter religious life (or a non celibate state) because it makes my vocation superior to other vocations (and I am not stating that anyone is doing this), I am making a very big mistake; however, if one should enter religious life with that motivation, one will probably eventually leave, or what is rather common : that motivation is purified more and more as formation continues.   There is a somewhat possibly subtle but important difference between entering religious life because I want to be the best versus I want to give Jesus the best that I can.   Neither are perfect motivations - the key is in those two words "I want".   Perfect motivation is an ardent desire to embrace and comply with God's Will in all things.

 

We are imperfect creatures and formation for all of us will continue all our lives no matter our vocation and related duties -  i.e. there is always room somewhere or other for improvement.  I read a beautiful homily by a Benedictine Prioress, which very sadly has been taken off the internet.  It ran that we are all saints and we are all sinners.  That the little nun who is so annoying because she is always talkative and distracting, is probably the very nun that is always so helpful and unselfish.  We are all saints somewhere or other, we are all sinners somewhere or other.  We all deserve a 'pat on the back' and a 'kick in the rear' somewhere or other.  

Edited August 17, 2013 by BarbaraTherese

[To Jesus Through Mary]

I wonder why there is this pressing need to discuss the "superiority" of religious life, when the whole idea is to die to oneself and become nothing in the eyes of the world as one consecrated them self to God. Seems a bit backwards on the logic of it all. Plus, being a jerk never proves your point or wins people to your "side".  

[God's Beloved]

Just an insight  :

 

No CV on VS has ever stated that CV is superior to or better than any other vocation to consecrated life or any other state of life. In fact you may be able to count a hundred times that CV on VS have stated the equality of dignity and universal call to holiness of every baptized person.

 

When CV state that  being  virgin , bride , mother  is the Charism and essence of the vocation  and  discerners ought to know that there is a vocation in the Church  in which this is the Charism  , to interpret this as a claim to superiority  is nothing but an emotional reaction , or can be interpreted as seeing CV as a threat to other vocations whose Charism this is not and who are afraid of losing vocations due to CV becoming known and understood.

 

Another point : We  are all on a pilgrim journey as People of God [ Church] . I do see a lot of changes in the thinking of the Church  after the Council of Trent . We are in the Post Vatican II  times . Sacramental marriage is being seen more and more as a Vocation . Vatican II tried to reduce the gap between Clergy and laity, Religious and laity , thus bringing Laity ---majority of whom are Married --to realize the dignity of their own vocation  and to be missionaries by the very fact of  their Baptism .

 

On VS I think  there is tendency to  traditional  Pre Vat II thinking.

[BarbTherese]

Just an insight  :

 

No CV on VS has ever stated that CV is superior to or better than any other vocation to consecrated life or any other state of life. In fact you may be able to count a hundred times that CV on VS have stated the equality of dignity and universal call to holiness of every baptized person.

 

When CV state that  being  virgin , bride , mother  is the Charism and essence of the vocation  and  discerners ought to know that there is a vocation in the Church  in which this is the Charism  , to interpret this as a claim to superiority  is nothing but an emotional reaction , or can be interpreted as seeing CV as a threat to other vocations whose Charism this is not and who are afraid of losing vocations due to CV becoming known and understood.

 

These are personal interpretations and the imagined negative motivations of others.  

 

Another point : We  are all on a pilgrim journey as People of God [ Church] . I do see a lot of changes in the thinking of the Church  after the Council of Trent . We are in the Post Vatican II  times . Sacramental marriage is being seen more and more as a Vocation . Vatican II tried to reduce the gap between Clergy and laity, Religious and laity , thus bringing Laity ---majority of whom are Married --to realize the dignity of their own vocation  and to be missionaries by the very fact of  their Baptism .

 

On VS I think  there is tendency to  traditional  Pre Vat II thinking.

 

Majority of lay people called to the laity would indeed probably be in the vocation of marriage - but not all of them.  The Document "Apostolate of The Laity" (along with any other reference to laity) is just what it states, the apostolate applying to lay people no matter their state in life i.e. married state or single celibate chaste state.  When The Church refers to the laity, she is referring to all states of life in the laity.  Just wanted to underscore this. :)

 

 

 

[BarbTherese]

I wonder why there is this pressing need to discuss the "superiority" of religious life, when the whole idea is to die to oneself and become nothing in the eyes of the world as one consecrated them self to God. Seems a bit backwards on the logic of it all. Plus, being a jerk never proves your point or wins people to your "side".  

 

The Church has firmly stated beyond question and in numerous places that the celibate state is theologically superior to the non celibate state. 

Where some can come seem to come unstuck and get the wrong understanding is in not grasping that the statements are "objective theological statements" only.

I don't think anyone contests to date (though I am unsure), the objective theological understanding of The Church re celibacy as superior theologically.

In the scale of things, however, nothing can be theologically superior to the Will of God.  And in the area of vocation we are free to choose, providing we have the God given necessary qualities/qualifications for whatever vocation we might be choosing.  Some do enter a vocation seemingly without the necessary qualities - but they develop over time and the person perseveres in the vocation to their spiritual profit.  Grace of God.  Others enter a vocation seeming to have the necessary qualities - as the journey in the way of life unfolds, this proves not to be so and they leave.

 

When the subjective enters into the discussion, then yes, it would be all about more or less dying to self and becoming fully the servant of God and neighbour and a very lowly status indeed in the eyes of the world, in fact possibly a type of madness to this world.  One would be striving to embrace lovingly God's Will in all things - and no matter one's vocation celibate or non celibate.

[MarysLittleFlower]

Sorry this will be one of my more opinionated posts. lol :) I think when the Apostles were discussing who is the greatest, I think that is something else. If I am called to consecrated life, that doesnt mean I'm better.. in Divine Mercy in My Soul, Jesus talks about the religious state being special and then says that true greatness is in loving God and in humility. I think its by dying to the world that the vocation is a higher state. This both elevates the state and humbles the person :) it glorifies God, and the person seeks greater humility. If I said that the vocation is not a higher state, then Im not accepting the words of Jesus and a formal definition from Trent that even includes an anathema! so I think its not prideful. It would be prideful to look down on others, think one deserves a religious vocation etc. Accepting it as an undeserved gift and accepting Jesus' words and Church doctrine that its a higher state, is not proud. Pride is in lifting up self, not in accepting what has already been said by God. Its a doctrine that religious state is higher. Im not free to disagree. Jesus said it too to the Saints. Maybe some people are feeling like we are exalting people- but we are talking about an objective state. God chooses whom He will, we are not commenting on married people as individuals or questioning their call or path to holiness, and noone is criticizing marriage. We are talking about teaching on state of life, not saying we are better.. Jesus even said how He chooses to work through little weak souls. :)

[MarysLittleFlower]

God's Beloved, you mentioned V2.. theres a difference between saying all are called to holiness and blurring distinctions between vocations. Lay people striving for sainthood was talked about preV2 too by Saints like St Josemaria Escriva.. the idea became more popular but sometimes people begin blurring distinctions. For example, Im called to holiness, but this doesnt mean that Im like Father X at Mass and can do what he does. :) preV2 is not bad.. its near 2000 years of Church history :) we need to remember that V2 is not the Council to be put over other Councils, and that they formally defined dogmas and are important. Im not saying you do this, and I agree we are all called to holiness.. I just think we shouldnt ignore near 2000 years of Church history :) i hope Im not too argumentative here! :) maybe its that I like to attend the TLM and this is a topic I think about. God bless!