popestpiusx Posted June 9, 2004 Posted June 9, 2004 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jun 5 2004, 11:24 PM'] The sky is falling, Pope and I are in perfect agreement [/quote] Every once in a while the stars line up just right...
the lumberjack Posted June 9, 2004 Posted June 9, 2004 [quote name='Crusader_4' date='Jun 6 2004, 11:24 AM'] Abortion is non-negotiable in any circumstance. [/quote] I am by NO means saying that abortion should be allowed... but what if your wife were in danger of losing her life? what would you choose? would you choose to save your wife, or the baby? just a question to consider. God bless.
qfnol31 Posted June 9, 2004 Posted June 9, 2004 (edited) [quote name='the lumberjack' date='Jun 9 2004, 12:30 AM'] but what if your wife were in danger of losing her life? what would you choose? would you choose to save your wife, or the baby? [/quote] God's will. I'll always love him more than the woman I marry. Plus, it would be better for her soul if she doesn't have an abortion, and my job as her spouse is to get her to Heaven. Edited June 9, 2004 by qfnol31
the lumberjack Posted June 9, 2004 Posted June 9, 2004 but how do you know would it be God's will to save the life of your child and not that of your life partner? your God given love? Your Proverbs 5:19, Proverbs 31, Song of Solomon 6:3 kinda girl? i would take my own life to save the both of them... it would be THAT difficult for me to know what to do...and I can't even say what I would do, right now.
qfnol31 Posted June 9, 2004 Posted June 9, 2004 [quote name='the lumberjack' date='Jun 9 2004, 12:43 AM'] but how do you know would it be God's will to save the life of your child and not that of your life partner? your God given love? Your Proverbs 5:19, Proverbs 31, Song of Solomon 6:3 kinda girl? i would take my own life to save the both of them... it would be THAT difficult for me to know what to do...and I can't even say what I would do, right now. [/quote] It's never right to cause harm in a situation like this to save a person. That's given us through Natural Law at least. In this way God's will becomes easier to identify (Natural Law is participation in Eternal Law).
Aloysius Posted June 9, 2004 Posted June 9, 2004 you may procede with operations that will not directly kill the baby but attempt to save both. it may end up killing the baby, but you're not intentionally killing the baby. Abortion is never the ONLY option. it is your decision whether to put the baby in danger with a procedure to attempt to save both lives, or to do what St. Gianna Beretta Molla did and in complete ultimate love sacrifice your life for your child.
crusader1234 Posted June 9, 2004 Posted June 9, 2004 [quote]The notorius sin would have to be public though, at least according to Canon Law, in order to justify denial of Communion. If the priest knew of a secret sin, even a habitual mortal but secret sin, I am not sure that he could deny Communion. It would be exposing the secret sins of another. If the sin is public (and mortal), then I think he MUST deny the person. [/quote] Yeah, good point. If a person is say, a homosexual and is 'married', they shoudl be denied. I wish they made the fact that taking communion in a state of mortal sin is a mortal sin in itself well known. Nobody at my highschool knows this so at school masses everyone takes communion, aside from me sometimes, and I always feel like an idiot for being the only one who 'sometiems' takes communion. I'm a social martyr . Anyways, yeah..... [quote]you may procede with operations that will not directly kill the baby but attempt to save both. it may end up killing the baby, but you're not intentionally killing the baby. Abortion is never the ONLY option. it is your decision whether to put the baby in danger with a procedure to attempt to save both lives, or to do what St. Gianna Beretta Molla did and in complete ultimate love sacrifice your life for your child. [/quote] This is in the Q&A somewhere, but yes what Aloysius said. The main cause of maternal death is 'tubal' pregnancies where the fetus is implanted on the fallopian tube wall and eventually it ruptures and BOTH mother and child die. There is an operation which involves the removal of the fallopian tube. This saves the mothers life, and the death of the child is viewed as a secondary effect because we havent directly murdered the child - whereas in abortions they basically ... well... its not pretty. So anyways, Lumberjack, you can save your wife. Don't worry.
crusader1234 Posted June 9, 2004 Posted June 9, 2004 Aloysuis, just wondering - would you mind explaining St. Gianna Beretta?
popestpiusx Posted June 9, 2004 Posted June 9, 2004 [quote name='Winchester' date='Jun 5 2004, 11:37 PM'] Wait, the Cardinal is an invertabrate? Is that allowed? I'd check Canon Law... [/quote] I think it is an impediment to orders!!
qfnol31 Posted June 9, 2004 Posted June 9, 2004 [quote name='crusader1234' date='Jun 9 2004, 02:09 PM'] There is an operation which involves the removal of the fallopian tube. This saves the mothers life, and the death of the child is viewed as a secondary effect because we havent directly murdered the child - whereas in abortions they basically ... well... its not pretty. [/quote] We talked about this in Philosophy of Man. Actually, there are two operations you can have, one of which is abortion. Unfortunately, that's the one most doctors will lean towards because it's easiest. I just wanted to state this in case anyone ever comes into a situation like this (I pray not).
IcePrincessKRS Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 [quote name='crusader1234' date='Jun 9 2004, 02:10 PM'] Aloysuis, just wondering - would you mind explaining St. Gianna Beretta? [/quote] In a nutshell, St. Gianna, if I recall correctly, was pregnant and they found she had cancer and refused treatment that would be harmful to the baby, giving up her own life to save her child's life.
crusader1234 Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 So I'm guessing that she died after the baby was born? I assumed that she had a tubal pregnancy and kept the baby and that made no sense since both would die. Anyways, thanks.
qfnol31 Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 We talked about this tonight at youth group. She found out that she was sick and at first was going to have the surgery, but then learned the effects on the baby. Because of this she decided to try and save the baby instead. After birth, she became very sick and eventually died because of her cancer.
IcePrincessKRS Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 Ah, thanks qfnol31. I knew I had the basic gist of it right. lol
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