Interview With Pope Francis In America Magazine

[Basilisa Marie]

I would like to say I'm grateful for the opportunity to represent. Although I feel more than a little funny correcting the "catechesis" people get from the Holy Father -- or rather the catechesis he is allowing the media to give in his name.  I say he is allowing it because its not my impression that he is very frustrated with what is being reported.

 

I have to wonder if he knows he's going to get misrepresented no matter what he says.  Benedict certainly knew that. 

 

I think a lot of the problems happen when the pope is taken out of context.  At least in this interview, the interviewer did a good job of making sure that he was able explain the points that would have been most wildly misinterpreted (i.e "gays are okay" type of stuff you get from quotes in the NY Times).  I think the hard part of talking about it is talking about the Holy Father's words without "explaining them away", but instead giving them context.  "Sure, the Church's position on homosexual acts hasn't changed, but Pope Francis is emphasizing the need to respect the dignity of all persons..." stuff like that.  

 

What do you mean with the spiritual bouquet? I must have missed something. 

 

Edit: Wait, nope, found it.  Dang.  Yeah, I'm with you, that's pretty terrible. :(

Edited September 20, 2013 by Basilisa Marie

[Fidei Defensor]

From my perspective, if you start out with coming down on someone's sinful life, they will tune you right out. You need to focus a little more attention on the positives of the faith rather than threatening eternal damnation and dwelling on what you see as evil in someone else's life.

 

Make your faith joyful and the rest falls into place; make it a burden and you'll turn people away.

[Apotheoun]

From my perspective, if you start out with coming down on someone's sinful life, they will tune you right out. You need to focus a little more attention on the positives of the faith rather than threatening eternal damnation and dwelling on what you see as evil in someone else's life.

 

Make your faith joyful and the rest falls into place; make it a burden and you'll turn people away.

Maybe times have changed since I was a young man, because I was confronted about things I was doing, and instead of making me shut that person (or others) out, I opened up and decided to re-evaluate my life. And so began the eight year journey that led to my conversion to Roman Catholicism.

[Era Might]

I have not charged the pope with heresy (although there have been heretical popes before), nor would I accuse him of formal heresy based upon a magazine interview or some other type of press junket. But he should be more precise in what he says because I am not going to blame CNN or the New York Times for misrepresenting him when he puts himself into these situations by making off-the-cuff comments. Perhaps he would be better off if he was at least a bit more scripted in his interactions with the media.

 

I don't think Pope Francis looks at the world like a scholastic theologian. Neither did Christ. He always had a gaggle of scribes and pharisees following him around making sure his cryptic comments didn't go unchallenged. "Hey, Christ, ixnay on the prostitutes and tax collecters-ay"

Edited September 20, 2013 by Era Might

[Apotheoun]

I don't think Pope Francis looks at the world like a scholastic theologian. Neither did Christ. He always had a gaggle of scribes and pharisees following him around making sure his cryptic comments didn't go unchallenged. "Hey, Christ, ixnay on the prostitutes and tax collecters-ay"

Scholastic is a bad word today in the modern Roman Church, and as a Melkite I can understand why, but morality is not about Scholastic theology; instead, it is about the teaching of Christ and the Apostles found in the New Testament.

[Fidei Defensor]

Maybe times have changed since I was a young man, because I was confronted about things I was doing, and instead of making me shut that person (or others) out, I opened up and decided to re-evaluate my life. And so began the eight year journey that led to my conversion to Roman Catholicism.

Perhaps thats your style, but I don't exactly enjoy having people come tell me I'm going to go to hell if I don't change.  People are perfectly aware where the Church stands on their varying life choices. What you have to do, instead of harping on what we already know, is to show us WHY your way is better. Saying something in my life is sinful is not enough to make me decide to join your faith. 

[Apotheoun]

Perhaps thats your style, but I don't exactly enjoy having people come tell me I'm going to go to hell if I don't change.  People are perfectly aware where the Church stands on their varying life choices. What you have to do, instead of harping on what we already know, is to show us WHY your way is better. Saying something in my life is sinful is not enough to make me decide to join your faith. 

That is not only one way of saying it. The word hell does not have to be mentioned to make the point. In fact, I do not remember the Catholic lady who challenged me saying I was going to go to hell. Instead, she said that by my actions I simply did not know Christ, and that I was fooling myself if I really did think I was being faithful to Him.

[Fidei Defensor]

That is not only one way of saying it. The word hell does not have to be mentioned to make the point. In fact, I do not remember the Catholic lady who challenged me saying I was going to go to hell. Instead, she said that by my actions I simply did not know Christ, and that I was fooling myself if I really did think I was being faithful to Him.

 

Admonishing the sinner has its place. But like I said, show the joy of faith and it is much more likely to compel someone to turn from sin rather than guilting them into it.

[Apotheoun]

Admonishing the sinner has its place. But like I said, show the joy of faith and it is much more likely to compel someone to turn from sin rather than guilting them into it.

It certainly does, because it brought me out from death to life. I remember Mrs. Poon every day in my prayers.

[Fidei Defensor]

It certainly does, because it brought me out from death to life. I remember Mrs. Poon every day in my prayers.

 

Well I'm glad that it worked for you.  But more people don't particularly enjoy being told their wrong (regardless of whether they are or not.)  If you were to bring about a new way of thinking by showing a sinner what a better life looks like, isn't that going to create a much more meaningful relationship between the person and God rather than them trying to avoid sin just to avoid punishment?

[KnightofChrist]

Well I'm glad that it worked for you. But more people don't particularly enjoy being told their wrong (regardless of whether they are or not.) If you were to bring about a new way of thinking by showing a sinner what a better life looks like, isn't that going to create a much more meaningful relationship between the person and God rather than them trying to avoid sin just to avoid punishment?

What approach would work for you?

[Fidei Defensor]

What approach would work for you?

Finding a joy and happiness in faith rather than burden and guilt.

[KnightofChrist]

Finding a joy and happiness in faith rather than burden and guilt.

Has no one in the course of your life used that approach?

[4588686]

It certainly does, because it brought me out from death to life. I remember Mrs. Poon every day in my prayers.

 

 

Sounds sensual.  

[Fidei Defensor]

Has no one in the course of your life used that approach?

No.

 

I've always been told that faith is a gift yet I don't understand how I can be faulted for not having something I wasn't given.

[Era Might]

Scholastic is a bad word today in the modern Roman Church, and as a Melkite I can understand why, but morality is not about Scholastic theology; instead, it is about the teaching of Christ and the Apostles found in the New Testament.

 

Yes, it is, but morality does not exist in a vacuum, it exists in a society and a worldview, and being a Christian does not mean imprisoning Christ in such things.

[Maggyie]

what I don't understand is how this gives me the opportunity to stand up and represent.

 

Here's an example. I have untreatable infertility. Well, the treatment is to use an egg donor.

 

I explained to my doctor I don't want to do it, it's against my religion.

 

"well," sez he, "the college of cardinals may be changing that teaching."

 

So I have some options here. I can try to painstakingly explain to the doctor why this teaching will not change, ever; I can explain the role of cardinals, the limits of infaltlibility, and so on. None of which he is remotely interested in. The church's teaching is not sound-bite or small-talk friendly. It will take about 25 minutes for me to explain all this well, which he does not have time for.
 

All he has time for is the headline on cnn.com or the news blip on the radio that confirms for him that the rules can change based on who is Pope.

 

So you know what? He is probably going to give some nice Catholic girl like me the same diagnosis in the next few weeks and provide the same advice about buying an egg donor. Except now he'll have Pope Francis in his back pocket (or rather he THINKS he does).

 

Are we really supposed to talk about this around the water cooler?

 

 

Coworker A: The Pope says gay is OK!

Me: Well the Pope didn't really say gay is OK.

Coworker B: You mean gays are evil?

Me: Not at all. the acts are wrong, the people aren't. Everyone deserve to be respected and loved, but that doesn't mean we approve of everything they do.

Coworker A: No YOU'RE wrong. I heard it on CNN. The Pope said it.

Me: It's all spin. The pope didn't really say exactly that. Sure, we all know that organizations like the New York Times are reputable sources that we trust for accurate information on a daily basis, but THIS time they're spinning it. Trust me.

Coworker B: Actually, the pope isn't the first person to bring this up. I studied theology in college and there are plenty of official Catholic theologians and experts that think the gays are OK too. I think you're misinformed, Maggie.

Me: Just because these experts in theology you've encountered have written scholarly books and articles on this topic,  doesn't mean they know what they're talking about.

Coworker A: hahaha, you're the only expert there really is in Catholicism, is that what you're saying? The news is lying to me, the egghead scholars are lying to me, the POPE is lying to me according to you! You're more Catholic than the pope! If only you could be as loving as he is, Maggie. Man, the worst part about Christianity is the Christians! where do you get this stuff?

Me: It's in the Catechism, see (shows them the Catechism). Gay people are to be loved, encouraged and respected. But homosexual sex is never okay.

Coworker B: well it looks like you're about to get a brand-new, Francis-ized edition of this book! And thank God, too.

Boss: You went 30 minutes over your break. Back to work.

 

 

[4588686]

I think you can tell a lot about somebody by their enemies.  While he has distanced some people who I really respect I have to say that overall the enemies he's acquired speak very well to his character.  

[Apotheoun]

Yes, it is, but morality does not exist in a vacuum, it exists in a society and a worldview, and being a Christian does not mean imprisoning Christ in such things.

Have I said it exists in a vacuum? True morality is only lived in Christ, which is why I do not accept the pope's de-emphasis on moral issues as legitimate. Dogma (in the modern sense of the word) and morality are inseparable.

[Fidei Defensor]

Have I said it exists in a vacuum? True morality is only lived in Christ, which is why I do not accept the pope's de-emphasis on moral issues as legitimate. Dogma (in the modern sense of the word) and morality are inseparable.

However, I have heard from your own mouth that one cannot learn their way into morality, it must be given through God. Is he wrong in saying that the Church ought to focus more on opening people to God instead of reminding them of their faults?