Duck Dynasty Dis

[KnightofChrist]

ah, further search attributes the origin of the phrase to St. Augustine
Cum dilectione hominum et odio vitiorum
"With love for mankind and hatred of sins." [/size]
 
I don't mind it stated that way, though.  The form it takes now is actually from Gadhi, who knew?[/size]

Missed this post, and if it originally came for Augustine, that would explain why I believe Bishop Sheen repeated it some manner. That does sound more elegant and poetic. But it would probably receive the same dislike if it became a common use. lol ;p

[CrossCuT]

A homosexual friend of mine on FB recently made a post regarding this phrase we are discussing. Someone had used it on him and he was very upset about it. 

[Clare Brigid]

Pope Francis has told us to stop overly focusing on a short-list of favorite sins to criticize.  That short list includes homosexuality.

 

There is a reason for the Holy Father's correction.  It obscures the Gospel.

 

Does the Holy Father's correction apply to you, Knight of Christ?

Edited January 3, 2014 by Clare Brigid

[KnightofChrist]

Pope Francis has told us to stop overly focusing on a short-list of sins that just happens to coincide with a certain political ideology.  That short list includes homosexuality.
 
There is a reason for the Holy Father's correction.  It obscures the Gospel.
 
Does it apply to you, Knight of Christ?

The reason this thread has centered around the topic of the sin of sodomy is because it is at least somewhat part of the original topic. The Holy Father does not condemn us for speaking out against sin. The topic of this thread centers around the sin of sodomy, because it is the main topic of the thread it is the main focus of it. And anyway if I recall correctly that phrase supposedly from the Holy Father, was actually written by the reporter and not an actual direct quote from the Pope, and the interview was removed from the Vatican's website.

[Clare Brigid]

The reason this thread has centered around the topic of the sin of sodomy is because it is at least somewhat part of the original topic. The Holy Father does not condemn us for speaking out against sin. The topic of this thread centers around the sin of sodomy, because it is the main topic of the thread it is the main focus of it. And anyway if I recall correctly that phrase supposedly from the Holy Father, was actually written by the reporter and not an actual direct quote from the Pope, and the interview was removed from the Vatican's website.

 

No, I'm not referring to the Scalfari article, but rather to other statements of Pope Francis.

 

The fact that someone has posted a topic does not license people to express, ad nauseam, their very special disgust for a sin that besets others.

[KnightofChrist]

No, I'm not referring to the Scalfari article, but rather to other statements of Pope Francis.
 
The fact that someone has posted a topic does not license people to express, ad nauseam, their very special disgust for a sin that besets others.

We are having a discussion we are all expressing our thoughts on the matter. That is how a conversion works, one side expresses their point of view and the other side expresses theirs. So long as both sides continue to express points of view, both sides will continue the discussion. While I may not agree with you, I'm not going to try to silence you and/or shut you up because I may not like what you have to say, I would like to be shown the same respect. This particular thread will not go on forever. This is only page 12. I've seen threads that go for much much much longer than that. Also we've pretty much stopped talking about the topic a page or two ago now. Edited January 3, 2014 by KnightofChrist

[Aloysius]

you know I think a good analogy to that phrase, which should illustrate why it's so bothersome, is Jack Chick's insistence that he loves Catholics, but hates Catholicism.

 

St. Augustine's general statement about loving mankind and hating sin is nice, love the sinner hate the sin would work nice if it hadn't been sucked into being a catch-phrase for homosexuality in particular (as it's barely if ever used for anything else).  I don't have a replacement catch-phrase for you, but still, the phrase itself applied to this context is irksome.

[CrossCuT]

I used to use the phrase as well but I never felt comfortable with it. However because I lacked any other way of explaining my stance I said it anyway...it felt like a cop out.

[KnightofChrist]

you know I think a good analogy to that phrase, which should illustrate why it's so bothersome, is Jack Chick's insistence that he loves Catholics, but hates Catholicism.
 
St. Augustine's general statement about loving mankind and hating sin is nice, love the sinner hate the sin would work nice if it hadn't been sucked into being a catch-phrase for homosexuality in particular (as it's barely if ever used for anything else).  I don't have a replacement catch-phrase for you, but still, the phrase itself applied to this context is irksome.

Well I wasn't really asking for a catchphrase but rather for someone that doesn't like the phrase, but agrees with the ideal of what it should stand for to conceptualize or state it in another way that we could all agree with. If someone is going to say that is the wrong way to phrase it, shouldn't they explain the correct way to phrase it?

[KnightofChrist]

I used to use the phrase as well but I never felt comfortable with it. However because I lacked any other way of explaining my stance I said it anyway...it felt like a cop out.

Exactly I'm sitting here trying to think of any other way to state the same idea, but it just comes out as sounding pretty much like the same phrase. So I dunno what to do.

[Aloysius]

well I've explained my opposition to homosexual sins and the kind of love, understanding, and compassion I think we should show to people all throughout this thread without using that phrase... I just didn't have a simple catchy phrase for it.

[KnightofChrist]

well I've explained my opposition to homosexual sins and the kind of love, understanding, and compassion I think we should show to people all throughout this thread without using that phrase... I just didn't have a simple catchy phrase for it.

Well yes, and the only reason I used it was because I was out right accused of being homophobic. So I tried correct that falsehood by conceptualizing and compartmentalizing into one post what my stance has actually been, the and great love and compassion I have for my fellow man, no matter what sin they are guilty of, and my disdain for sin. By using the particular phrase it just seemed to make matters worse. I guess there is just no easy way to say it.

[Aloysius]

yeah it's a touchy minefield of a subject no matter which way you cut it :cyclops: (as well it should be--hatred and suicides and such high stakes for people's lives running through it)

[Norseman82]

"Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?  Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye?  You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."

 

Matthew 7:3-5.

 

The real problem here, I think, is in your focus on other people's sins.  As Our Lord tells us, it's really best to focus on our own sins.  That does not mean that the other person's sins are not sins.  It does mean that you are doing yourself and others spiritual harm by focusing on the sins of others.

 

 

Sir, you are focusing on the sins of others.  That is the point.

 

Do you have any you can focus on?  It would be best, for you and for us.

 

 

A little refresher course on Catholicism:  admonishing a sinner is a spiritual work of mercy: 

 

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10198d.htm

 

Additionally, the CCC states that we can share in the sin of another when we do not hinder them when we have an obligation to do so (CCC 1868).