Is This Controversial? Do You Agree/disagree?

[PadrePioOfPietrelcino]

In the comments so far, I don't see any mercy and love and sadness at another person's hurt.

 

I also find it very interesting that virtually all the comments so far have been by men. (Blazeingstar has chosen not to reveal his/her gender.)

 

Sexuality is VERY different for men and women.

 

Sometimes I'm ashamed to be a member of Phatmass.

 

I thought Notredame had a compassionate response.

[NotreDame]

I thought Notredame had a compassionate response.

Well, my first reply might have been, but not the 2nd.  My larger issue with "compassion" in these cases is "how do you show compassion toward a blog post?"

 

There's a difference between replying to a poster with this problem and replying to a post about this problem.  The former deserves compassion, that latter analysis.  Iggy being upset for people not being compassionate to a blog post is, well... it's a different point of view than I and others had.  

[PadrePioOfPietrelcino]

true, I responded before I saw this thing got a little nuts and went on for 5 pages. My post was referring to the first post.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

true, I responded before I saw this thing got a little nuts and went on for 5 pages. My post was referring to the first post.

 

Personally, I didn't think the thread got a little nuts as it went along. I think the thread got more compassionate, and ended up in a pretty good place.

 

However, everyone sees things differently, so I am glad you have expressed your opinion. Seeing things differently is part of what makes Phatmass so interesting--and ultimately helpful.

 

Not to worry, I don't think I have any long posts left in me for this particular thread or this topic. I said what I wanted to say, and I learned a LOT.

 

I also rarely read, much less post, in the Debate forum, and I am not even reading the "Compassion" thread. (I'm busy cleaning up after the mice who have recently invaded my house due to the cold weather. Yuck!)

Edited February 14, 2014 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[Norseman82]

I think the takeaway here is to keep your promises (unless you have to sin to do it), or else don't make the promise in the first place if you never intended to fulfill it.

[Archaeology cat]

Cherie - awesome post

[cmaD2006]

Please note that in my post above, I was responding to a post that CatholicCid made here but after mine was posted I noticed that CC's had been moved to the Compassion thread in Debate Table, so maybe my response should be moved there as well?

 

 

And also, if you are referring to my posts as being uncharitable, please let me know in what way they are not charitable and I will address this, as that is the whole point of my posts - that we show charity and compassion towards each other. I don't think that I have been uncharitable, merely trying to respond to what BS has posted and trying to understand how refusing to express compassion can be considered charitable. It is a razor's edge to walk but I think we can all do it if we try very hard.

 

Cruciatara -- no ... I was not referring to your post being uncharitable.  I would have directly quoted your post and put your name in the thread.  *But* having said that I felt the need to clearly state in the thread to make sure that charity prevals or we'll just move everything over.

 

You're always welcome to also send a PM ... I would have had no issue clarifying it via a PM.

[cmaD2006]

Personally, I didn't think the thread got a little nuts as it went along. I think the thread got more compassionate, and ended up in a pretty good place.

 

 

I think once the split occurred this thread followed a nicer line.  Thanks everyone.

[Winchester]

My sex ed teachers and my parents were pretty good about all this croutons. It's different for guys anyway, but I don't think anyone could have come out of Darrell Lockridge's "Sex is great, fun, and I have the kids to prove it" class with an internalized prudishness about sex. The other side of this is that there are people who either avoid teaching about sex or only talk about it in a way so as to make the outlook something puritans would be proud of.

 

Excruciating pain during sexual intercourse is an issue for a doctor of medicine. It shouldn't be excruciating, even for normal sex. Unless the guy is [mod]not taking into account his partner's needs in a reasonable manner during intercourse.-BG[/mod]. This could probably be solved by taking the advice of Stereo Palma, but if that doesn't work, it's time for the doctor.

 

Also: Her parents were apparently complete idiots.

Edited February 16, 2014 by BG45

[Maggyie]

I think the takeaway here is to keep your promises (unless you have to sin to do it), or else don't make the promise in the first place if you never intended to fulfill it.

? Don't get it. The girl is breaking her promise? Or the church? Or the chastity speakers?

I really feel alot of the problem is that chastity teaching is really just teenage pregnancy prevention. It's geared toward kids. It's extremely child-like and simplified - if you finish your vegetables and don't eat the candy until AFTER dinner, you can have the yummiest desert!!! Magical unicorns. Confetti will rain from the clouds!! Yeah!!!

Or... Don't eat the desert before dinner. If you do, you'll get a horrible stomachache that makes your intestines rip open and need to throw up. Only bad children whom mommy doesn't love eat desert before dinner.

In scenario 1, if the unicorn doesn't appear you will think your teachers scammed you a bit. With scenario 2 you probably will believe the desert is poison and you're not going to eat it ever and risk your mom turning into a thing with glass eyes and a wooden tail.

I think teenagers can handle realistic sex education. And the fact is that most people don't get married until they are well into their 20s, at which point there doesn't exist sex education for adults. It's ludicrous because isn't that what success is? Married adults commencing their sex lives together? So let's leave these two people to their own devices with the facts about sex they learned during freshman year of high school to guide them.

[Semper Catholic]

I'm female.

And I am a bit jaded. I work with people her age every day. I see her not as a victim of somewhat questionable religious teachings, but as another whiny young adult who is blaming something in her life on someone else.

Mind you I've just had to deal with a student who blamed his hating class on the fact that everyone else in class knew more than he did. I see it every day. Not only that, I went to a lukewarm Catholic college and stuck close to the other practicing Catholics and Christians. There were girls like this, and they were mean and nasty towards other girls, especially those who had/were having sex. Some even believed that you needed to ask for Gods' forgiveness in any "part" you had in an assault.

I think I may have gone a bit softer if she had taken some responsibility, ANY responsibility for her actions.

Truth is, all I got from this was, "I let my young idealism turn me into a self-rigorous prick, i don't acknowledge that my attitude could of hurt anyone in any way, I have an issue and now I need someone to blame"

You sound like the "mean" teacher every kid try to avoid.

[Basilisa Marie]

I think the takeaway here is to keep your promises (unless you have to sin to do it), or else don't make the promise in the first place if you never intended to fulfill it.

 

No, I think the point she was making was that she didn't know what she was getting into, and wishes she either knew about her fear of sex beforehand so she could have done something about it or that she would have been taught about it differently so that she wouldn't have the fear in the first place. She's mad because she did everything exactly right by what everyone told her, and it ended up giving her some kind of complex. It's a problem with the methods, not the core message. 

 

And yeah, her parents totally dropped the ball on this. 

[Basilisa Marie]

 

What do I, a woman, want from you, the church?

I want the church to be gentle with the hearts and minds of the young girls and recognize that many of these same young girls will soon be young, married women.

I want the church to stop equating virginity with purity so that girls, like me, aren’t put on a purity pedestal.

I want the church to stop taking the easy, lazy way out by teaching a fear-based, shame-based view of sexuality and to stop shying away from a healthy and honest conversation about sexuality.

I want the church to give me, and those like me, a chance to be vulnerable without judgment, without correction, without shame.

 

The woman wants better sex education, an understanding that purity isn't just about strict virginity, and to have people she can talk to openly about her fears about it. I think Maggie hit the nail on the head. 

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

No, I think the point she was making was that she didn't know what she was getting into, and wishes she either knew about her fear of sex beforehand so she could have done something about it or that she would have been taught about it differently so that she wouldn't have the fear in the first place. She's mad because she did everything exactly right by what everyone told her, and it ended up giving her some kind of complex. It's a problem with the methods, not the core message. 

 

And yeah, her parents totally dropped the ball on this. 

 

A big "yes" to this! (I've run out of props for now, but I'll try to come back and prop your post when I get some props.)

[PhuturePriest]

My sex ed teachers and my parents were pretty good about all this croutons. It's different for guys anyway, but I don't think anyone could have come out of Darrell Lockridge's "Sex is great, fun, and I have the kids to prove it" class with an internalized prudishness about sex. The other side of this is that there are people who either avoid teaching about sex or only talk about it in a way so as to make the outlook something puritans would be proud of.

 

Excruciating pain during sexual intercourse is an issue for a doctor of medicine. It shouldn't be excruciating, even for normal sex. Unless the guy is[mod]not taking into account his partner's needs in a reasonable manner during intercourse.-BG[/mod], it shouldn't be "excruciating". This could probably be solved by taking the advice of Stereo Palma, but if that doesn't work, it's time for the doctor.

 

Also: Her parents were apparently complete idiots.

 

If I hadn't just finished my drink, I most certainly would have involuntarily shot it across the room through my nose. I commend you, fine sir.

[the171]

I think the takeaway here is to keep your promises (unless you have to sin to do it), or else don't make the promise in the first place if you never intended to fulfill it.

do you sit and wait for threads about chastity?

[blazeingstar]

You sound like the "mean" teacher every kid try to avoid.

 

While I do tutor my friends kids (who hang off of my every word) I don't tend to work with children.

 

I work with adults like the OP, and am often sent the "hard cases" to get them to graduation because they WILL throw ever excuse in the book out.  Including sexual issues...believe me, I hear it all.

 

My graduation rate is better than most of my co-workers with "easier" caseloads.  I probably have some students who don't like me, but I get results for them and for myself.

[Semper Catholic]

While I do tutor my friends kids (who hang off of my every word) I don't tend to work with children.

I work with adults like the OP, and am often sent the "hard cases" to get them to graduation because they WILL throw ever excuse in the book out. Including sexual issues...believe me, I hear it all.

My graduation rate is better than most of my co-workers with "easier" caseloads. I probably have some students who don't like me, but I get results for them and for myself.

So yes you are the mean teacher everyone try to avoid.

[blazeingstar]

So yes you are the mean teacher everyone try to avoid.

 

But if they get to me, they have a better chance of succeeding and not ruining their lives.   So I guess, my co-workers who have more "compassion" end up not being able to have the sucess rates I do.

 

Perhaps they are morally superior.  Or perhaps actually getting results, actually changing people's lives, actually making sure that these sniviling men (and women) children don't work part time at McDonalds for the rest of their lives means something.

Edited February 16, 2014 by blazeingstar

[LouisvilleFan]

Curious what you think.

 

Thanks for sharing this. I posted a response on the original site. It sounds exactly like vaginismus. There's a good treatment plan offered at www.vaginismus.com which is worth considering, along with consulting with a good doctor.

 

It's great that John Paul II started the conversation with Theology of the Body, unfortunately it's not a conversation that's continued in most dioceses and parishes. The writer is spot on about how easy it is to take pride in one's own chastity -- and nobody will bring you back to earth when most of the school is filled with easy targets in promiscuous teenagers. Doing everything right does not make us righteous. There is a lot of fakeness going around. We need places outside of the confessional where we can be brutally honest. That's one gift the Interent offers us, but it only goes so far. This kind of openness needs to spill over into our parishes and other church communities so we can be healed through personal friendships.