Why Get Married

[polskieserce]

Sorry , I don't agree
Before I met my spouse I didn't believe in love, it seemed like a fairytale.
I was wrong!
Love is as real as the sun rising tomorrow and is undeniable .

 

I am not questioning whether or not love actually exists, because I know it does.  I'm just saying that some catholics who aren't ardent about following all the rules don't see the need for the extra legal limbo.

[add]

Then you saw her face. Now you're a believer!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfuBREMXxts

[Credo in Deum]

http://youtu.be/kE0pwJ5PMDg

You're welcome.

[superblue]

I have no "beef" with the faith just the many of the false prophets who now run the church and speak for it.

I firmly believe if Jesus were alive he would be ashamed of how the Church has acted almost since it's inception.

Real catholics question these false prophets, they don't propagate their message.

 

 

lol oh man I rolled reading this, I wouldn't go so far as to call the leaders of the Catholic Church, " prophets "  , but you make a very great point in wondering how Christ would really react to the Church now or for at least modern times I dunno since Vatican I till now. Since that seems to be what people an still remember.

 

I am still getting a chuckle cause if you dared say such a thing on another forum ( C.A.F ) wooooo you would be in soooo much trouble.   If leaders at least in the Catholic Church can not be humble enough to admit mistakes, and be transparent enough with those they lead , and to then take appropriate action for misconduct, crimes, etc , then distrust for that leaderships starts to develop except in this case a lot more is at risk these leaders run the risk of turning people away from the " Bride of Christ ".  ( which is another rant of mine, how can the church be feminine when humanity makes up the church and the rock which was it was built upon was male, so I see no point in using that analogy and would prefer to just drop that an refer to humanity as the church or a congregation as the church ) 

[superblue]

More confusion which disrupts this debate about marriage, is the Catholics, who petition the Pope, since at least the Holy Father / Saint John Paul the II  about priests marrying . I can see that being very conflicting to those not in the faith, here they are wondering why they should get married, care about marriage, debate homosexuals marrying ( which I debate myself on that topic sometimes to no end till I get a headache an say forget it )  and then bill after bill pops up on marriage, or our government over steps its bounds time an again on the issue, and then on top of that now they see how the Catholic Church is very much divided or at the very least confused or debating the issues on priests being allowed to marry.

 

The problem is that the Church is a Monarchy albeit a free one to enter and leave as you please, so until some kind of voting system comes into place on such matters, to debate it in the realm of the Faith is just argumentative .  Less one is honestly trying to educate another and the debate is to change someone elses' mind on the matter.

[Nihil Obstat]

wat

[PhuturePriest]

2. She feels the same way for some reason

 

It's the uniform.

[add]

My oldest son will marry a month from now, God bless him and his bride, I pray

[Socrates]

I have no "beef" with the faith just the many of the false prophets who now run the church and speak for it.

I firmly believe if Jesus were alive he would be ashamed of how the Church has acted almost since it's inception.

Real catholics question these false prophets, they don't propagate their message.

 

So if "false prophets" now run the Church, who then are the true prophets, or these "real Catholics" you speak of that we should follow instead?  Nancy Pelosi?

 

I haven't seen anything in your posts here that differs from standard secular politically correct liberalism.

It's the same stuff you can hear from any left-wing politician, pundit, or celebrity on TV.  Not much to do with Jesus.

 

Simply going along with what's popular and pc and the culture is hardly much of a prophetic witness.

 

Besides, there's a word for people who think that the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church has got it all wrong, and they instead somehow have the "real" truth of Jesus, and it's not "Catholic."  It's "Protestant."

[add]

So if "false prophets" now run the Church, who then are the true prophets, or these "real Catholics" you speak of that we should follow instead? Nancy Pelosi?

I think she (Semper) maybe referring to Nancy Pelosi, as an example of a false prophet. Pelosi may not run things but she is a very high profile Catholic, in America.
IE: pelosi's public statement about abortion

http://www.priestsforlife.org/magisterium/bishops/niederauer-pelosi.htm Edited May 29, 2014 by add

[add]

The question you are asking has fewer solid answers than it did in the past, hence the decline in marriage.  Marriage has been on the decline for a long time.  There is no single reason why marriage has gone downhill.  Rather, it is a combination of multiple factors that have come together to change the playing field.  But here are the reasons why, in no particular order (as they come to me).  This probably isn't all of them, but it should be most of them.

 

1. Sexual Revolution - Ever since this social change and the advent of birth control, it has been easier and more socially acceptable for people to have sex outside of marriage.  There is no urgent rush to get married at 18 if you can have sex without marriage and not have to worry about a kid.

 

2. Prolonged Educational Requirements - In the 50s in the US, it was much easier for people to get out of high school, get a blue collar job, and have one person support the entire family on that income.  Nowadays, people have to get advanced education beyond high school, which can take several more years.  This undoubtedly adds several years onto the typical age when people get married.

 

3. People are less traditional/religious than before - People don't follow the old-school traditions/religious teachings like they did in previous decades.  People are more individualistic and more open to other practices that their grandparents would never have even considered.  People want to enjoy life after going through years of school before getting tied down with responsibilities once again.

 

4. Anti-male Divorce Laws - I already know some people are going to fight me on this statement since that's exactly what happened in threads I started in the past.  However, let me assure you that I do understand the laws.  The laws on the books now treat men like untapped crude oil that is a resource for women to use.  This is basically the reason why Bush was trying to tell poor women to get married, so the guy they are with and not the government is responsible for them.  Guys going through the divorce get raped by the system.  Child custody, child support, alimony, division of property, domestic abuse allegations, attorney fees.....guys get SCREWED in all of these ways.

 

4.5 Pro-Female Sentiment in Society -This is highly connected with reason 4, so I didn't count this as an entirely separate point.  But overall, society is pretty pro-female from a social/cultural standpoint and a policy standpoint.  Obama has pushed to lower the burden of proof to have a college guy be guilty of rape.  Also, all a girl has to do to get a guy in trouble is report the guy for hitting her, show the police a bruise (even if the guy didn't do it), cry about it in front of the judge, and the guy is 100% guilty :rolleyes:  The examples are too numerous to list, so I'm not even gonna try listing all of them.

 

5. Marriage Strike - In reaction to 4 and 4.5, there is a growing movement of men who are openly anti-marriage due to the unfairness of the legal system and are refusing the sign the legal contract.  After all, any lawyer will tell you that if you don't agree with the terms of a legal contract, you should not be signing it.

 

6. Financial incentives to stay unmarried but no incentive to marry - I don't know the specifics of these, but I heard that people are able to get more benefits if the woman is "officially" single and has a child out of wedlock as opposed to having a child to a man she's married to.  That and some changes in SS benefits (again I don't know the specifics of this point, so I can't answer in detail).

 

7. Absurd Divorce Rate - Why marry and spend so much money on a wedding if there is a good chance it won't last?  Doesn't sound like a very good return on investment.

 

8. Marriage is no longer the symbol of honor it once was - This kind of ties in with point 3 but I wanted to emphasize this specific detail more.  At one time, marriage was a much stronger symbol of honor between two people.  Divorce was a dirty scandal that made the whole family feel ashamed.  Nowadays, it's outrageous to even consider hoping that one's spouse, man or woman, is a virgin :rolleyes:  It is a disposable contract that people tear up once someone gets bored of their spouse.

 

9. Judgment Free Culture - People have an expanded sense of what is permissible and what's not.  They feel that no matter how outrageous their actions are, that it is nobody's place to judge them in a bigoted, archaic way :rolleyes:  This plays into marriage because it gives them the sense that they can commit numerous sexual indiscretions and not have to deal with any social stigma.

 

 

 

So basically we are talking about a lack of Faith

IE:   My niece is planning on getting married in her backyard (instead of a Church) even though both my niece and her fiancé come from good traditional Catholic homes. 

They don't want any part of religion and do not attend church except on Christmas day and sometimes Easter, but are planning on a married life like there parents and there grand parents before them.

:covereyes:

Edited May 30, 2014 by add

[superblue]

So basically we are talking about a lack of Faith

IE:   My niece is planning on getting married in her backyard (instead of a Church) even though both my niece and her fiancé come from good traditional Catholic homes. 

They don't want any part of religion and do not attend church except on Christmas day and sometimes Easter, but are planning on a married life like there parents and there grand parents before them.

:covereyes:

 * shrugs *   so how if we abide by the faith to any degree, appreciate such a wedding ? Are those of us who are Catholic to appreciate the fact these are good honest people who are committing themselves to each other , or do we get on some personal crusade to bring them back to the church or convert them if never been baptized.   I have a relative who is living with someone they have now brought a lovely little boy into the world, they are not married, haven't been to a church in who knows, and have no intentions of getting the baby baptized any time soon... I had briefly even mentioned this to my S.D at one point, an merely stated how I wasn't hitting them over the head with a bible and wagging my finger at them but suggested the thought that they deserve to be married.

 

I guess in the end all we have is praying for those we are worried about, but for myself and others who are Catholic, and have relatives who are living as a couple or a family, have left the Church or again were never brought into the church, who do we talk to on advice on bringing them back ? Other than a priest, but I am not sure what a priest would say any different than anyone else here..

[polskieserce]

So basically we are talking about a lack of Faith

IE:   My niece is planning on getting married in her backyard (instead of a Church) even though both my niece and her fiancé come from good traditional Catholic homes. 

They don't want any part of religion and do not attend church except on Christmas day and sometimes Easter, but are planning on a married life like there parents and there grand parents before them.

:covereyes:

 

With or without the legal contract?

[add]

With or without the legal contract?

 

separate bank accounts, so in my opinion without

[mortify ii]

Men and women ought to get married to advance each other spiritually and raise children

[add]

Lack of a marriage certificate isn't stopping a large percentage of couples from starting a family today. And the children do not seem to be any better or worse off

[Anomaly]

Lack of a marriage certificate isn't stopping a large percentage of couples from starting a family today. And the children do not seem to be any better or worse off

I would strongly disagree that kids don't suffer. Kids thrive with stable homes. I see lack of commitment to marriage reflecting on lack of commitment to being a parent. There are lots if reasons to get married, some are selfish benifits such as personal happiness, but also it's benificial to other(spouse, children, family, society). Marriage is a constant effort of balancing taking and giving. The altruistic sense that religion or spirituality can bring to a marriage is a a great aid to redirect the focus from mostly selfish purposes.

[The Bus Station]

I am a feminist hear me roar

[southern california guy]

So basically we are talking about a lack of Faith

IE:   My niece is planning on getting married in her backyard (instead of a Church) even though both my niece and her fiancé come from good traditional Catholic homes. 

They don't want any part of religion and do not attend church except on Christmas day and sometimes Easter, but are planning on a married life like there parents and there grand parents before them.

:covereyes:

 

That might not be so bad.  Maybe they won't get divorced like so many Catholics... (Sorry I mean have the marriage "annuled"..)

[superblue]

That might not be so bad.  Maybe they won't get divorced like so many Catholics... (Sorry I mean have the marriage "annuled"..)

See this is another point that sticks in peoples side on the issue of marriage in the Church, or what is the big deal about gay marriage, and a range of other things that have been mentioned, when someone points out something like this, the difference between at least in the church of a " divorce " and an " annulment " and the confusion with that.....

 

Their is the Spiritual / Sacramental aspect and then the legal aspect of it, the divorce is for the civil / legal system so there is no arguing of who gets what. And the Annulment is the i guess spiritual acknowledgement  that  the marriage should have never taken place to begin with ? But i could not imagine anyone going through an annulment and on C.A.F there have been many horror stories about being rejected an annulment and now what do i do, i cant receive communion an on an on an on..... And i am wondering is the Priest who proceeded over the marriage in any way responsible when it comes time for an annulment preceding , is he brought forward for questioning as well, on how he interacted with the couple ?

 

That and how many Catholics actually know they need to get an annulment if they decide they want to get divorced ?

 

The educating of Catholics is so low in general, it isn't surprising how we are confused on this topic.  Congrats to anyone who has it all fully understood and feels comfortable explaining why homosexuals cant, or shouldn't ever be married and have children ( adopt ) , why it is so detrimental to be married in the Church, and then in the same process not alienating people by doing so or being argumentative about it.  If anyone has that talent, they should write a book on the subject, and get in touch with their local bishop to start educating their diocese on the matter.