Who's Up Watching The Canonization!?

[mortify ii]

That being said, only the Catholic Church holds the fullness of the Truth. Period.

 

How much truth does one need to hold in order to be saved?

[Benedictus]

I think the process was speeded up too quickly. I can't help but see the canonizations as being a calculated political act. Both Popes appeal to different ends of the church, and the overlaps therein. Together they seem to set the tone desired by the Vatican, or maybe Pope Francis in particular, of a church rooted in theology and tradition but also one that is open to renewal, compassion and new inspiration. But it downplays the criticisms wedged against both of them. It's unwise, I think, to make someone a saint when they still have an immediate living memory/impact. The role John Paul ll played in dealing with abuse claims, his dealings with interreligious dialologue (which I think went too far), and his failure to deal with some liturgical abuses (and questionable appointments) are still being played out. If new negative things now come to light it will drag the church credibility into the ground.  There were good reasons why the church usually allowed a generation to die off before making anyone a saint. This speeded process may come back to haunt them.

[mortify ii]

One only need give one name, Marcial Maciel

[Benedictus]

I never said that. The Church recognizes that although the Truth subsists in the Catholic Church, there are rays of truth in other religions. I'm just pointing that out.

 

 

I agree with Tardis. The crunch of the issue is that the Gospel is 'Good News'. You can only witness to people through being seen, acting and then developing a relationship with people. People come to the truth through seeing the good it upholds, expresses, and brings to life. I don't see any problem receiving a blessing or attending with other religions a service. I'd go to their houses for dinner also, why not? Being present with others and recognising the good therein doesn't negate one's own beliefs, or the power they have.

I think God wants a relationship with people (and always has) and we are also inclined towards God/worship in some form. Our response to Gods  love maybe inadequate or corrupted. But I don't believe God would turn his back on a whole country, continent or period of time in history because they weren't Catholic (or any other form of Christianity). I'm sure he would have sent them many different cultures graces and truths over time. But, of course, I believe the fullness of Gods love is expressed and completed through Christ. Where i think some go wrong is by seeming to give certain traditions, texts or people an excess of regard which can confuse people regarding what is truth or worthwhile in life. The idea that compassion (or apathy) should lead us to encourage people to select religions or traditions like some impartial buffet, or worse say all the religions have the same God (or that God doesn't care about their religious/ spiritual choices) I think is a great heresy.

I'm sure Pope John Paul ll was motivated by respect and love when he kissed the Koran, and similar things.. But did any Muslim cleric kiss the Bible back in equal token? I don't believe they did. But the image of the Pope kissing the Koran was used to undermine and persecute Catholics in Islamic countries afterwards. Sometimes good intentions have complicated, and negative,  consequences.

[Fidei Defensor]

How much truth does one need to hold in order to be saved?

If we confess our belief in the Lord Jesus Christ, we are saved through Him (Romans 10:9-10). We have been crucified with Him and are granted new life through him (Galatians 2:20), being born of water and the spirit (John 3:5).
 
However, we don't know whether God saves those outside of the Church, and if he does, why. We cannot judge and condemn anyone to hell lest we be judged ourselves (Matthew 7:1).
 
The only way to be saved for sure is through the faith taught by the Catholic Church. That doesn't guarantee saving (Philippians 2:12), and we don't know who God chooses to save outside the Church, as we are also judged by our works (Ecclesiastes 12:14, Romans 2:6). Edited April 30, 2014 by tardis ad astra

[Nihil Obstat]

Outside the Church there is no salvation. We know this.
If anyone 'visibly' outside the Church were to be saved through the mercy of God, that means that such a person was in fact joined to the Church, albeit in an extraordinary and exceptional manner.
Ignorance does not give salvation.

[Fidei Defensor]

Outside the Church there is no salvation. We know this.
If anyone 'visibly' outside the Church were to be saved through the mercy of God, that means that such a person was in fact joined to the Church, albeit in an extraordinary and exceptional manner.
Ignorance does not give salvation.

Relevant Catechism passages:

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

 

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

 

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

 

848 Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men.

Edited April 30, 2014 by tardis ad astra

[Nihil Obstat]

Like I said.

[Fidei Defensor]

Like I said.

Indeed. Just wanted to add context.

[AugustineA]

Outside the Church there is no salvation. We know this.
If anyone 'visibly' outside the Church were to be saved through the mercy of God, that means that such a person was in fact joined to the Church, albeit in an extraordinary and exceptional manner.
Ignorance does not give salvation.

I was at an NO Mass at the cathedral yesterday and the priest actually said just that. I sense a change at the cathedral. They're starting to correct liturgical abuses and speak on ignorance of Church teaching. I was surprised, in a good way. :)

[Seven77]

One only need give one name, Marcial Maciel

 

May God have mercy on his soul, and on his parents for naming him.

 

http://www.eyeofthetiber.com/2014/01/09/what-the-hell-kinda-name-is-marcial-maciel-anyway-new-study-asks/

[mortify ii]

May God have mercy on his soul, and on his parents for naming him.

 

http://www.eyeofthetiber.com/2014/01/09/what-the-hell-kinda-name-is-marcial-maciel-anyway-new-study-asks/

 

It would be funny if the Church authorities had not known about this monster since the 1970's.

 

 

[NotreDame]

It would be funny if the Church authorities had not known about this monster since the 1970's.

 

They knew about him well before the 70's:

 

http://www.andersonadvocates.com/Files/37/Timeline-of-Father-Marcial-Maciel-Degollado

 

He had to step down under Pope Pius the XII but was reinstated after Pius the XII died.  Hmm...  Who was pope after Pius the XII?

[NotreDame]

The priests from audiosancto said the only infallible part of canonization is that the person in question died in the state of grace and now enjoys the beatific vision, ie.  the person is now in heaven.  They say that's the only part that is infallible and I hope so myself because if even a Pope has trouble getting into heaven then I'm in trouble.

 

Now as for the cult of personality that has gotten built up around these men with so many hangers on using them as instruments of self-promotion (like Maciel did)?   Nothing infallible about that.  It could very well originate entirely with man.