cmaD2006 Posted July 5, 2014 Posted July 5, 2014 Heh. I think it's ok here. Actually I think there's a better chance of getting a debate going on this topic in Vocation Station :p But seriously it would have been fine in vocation staton too (although I'd move it if civility goes away akin to what has happened with other threads).
BarbTherese Posted July 5, 2014 Author Posted July 5, 2014 Nunsense, thank you for the information shared. CM, I am very grateful indeed for the welcome information you shared. “Profoundly deaf†was cleverly incorporated with some very welcome information (I typed “pubic vows†at one point – and was very grateful once more for spell checker – and yet I was oh so very tempted to leave it as it was!) AL, thank you too for what you have shared. As you said, AL, the link you gave was mainly for OCDS and their vows are different in that there is an incorporation into Carmel itself and with Church recognition in a more formal sort of manner. I already understood the difference between temporary promises and actual vows. I was many years (over 10yrs or more probably) making a vow or promise for one year and then renew the next year on the Feast of Our Lady of The Rosary, Oct 7. I sought advice from a priest who knew me very well indeed and after those 10yrs or so. I asked Father his advice about making life private vows or perpetual private vows. As your document stated too and rightly: “A vow is a deliberate and free promise made to God concerning a possible and better good which must be fulfilled by reason of the virtue of religion.†Private vows and Bethany have nothing whatsoever to do with "status" – rather quite to the extreme contrary at the other end of the scale. In making private vows I seek actively to remain fully in the lay state in secular life and to be "one of" and actively rather than apart in any way whatsoever as ‘taken out of’ or ‘separated from’ (all as stated in the rule for Bethany as way of life), which I am anyway by virtue of lay status in secular life and I knew this. (I do wonder sometimes - lol - how loudly I have to ‘shout’ this before the subject does not crop up again :) ) I was talking to my pp a few weeks ago and in our conversation, I said "I like to be just a face in the pews, Father". Father wondered aloud where that left him. I guess it could be said that my own vocation emphasizes a quality I appreciate and actively seek. I knew that the evangelical counsels were recommended to all but not in a stable way of life as with the consecrated state of life. I vowed the evangelical counsels and in my own form of a stable way of life not in direct imitation of religious life as my focus, rather a seeking to walk in the footsteps of Jesus who was at all times and everywhere poor, obedient and chaste which was a lifestyle that gave Glory to His Father, despite and yet because of the shocking Death of Jesus. I sought and seek to live my personal journey and its situations and circumstances etc. as Jesus would do if He were me. Tall order………and I know it – it is an aspiration and a goal an objective of a faulted, fallible and weak creature – one however, who is baptised and called to that mission and aided by Grace and The Holy Spirit all the way and most especially by The Mass and Sacramental Life of The Church, by the very and actual Presence of Jesus most especially in The Blessed Eucharist……..and all that might be in-between, although all that says it all I think, without thinking too much. What might need to be understood, I think, is that the understanding and insight into my own vocation was not a lightning bolt and a sudden flash of inspiration. It was and still is a journey, an unfolding. As Bethany unfolded as a way of life and when bipolar episodes were frequent and severe, what it gave me and that which I came to value highly and still do (and it is emphasized in my rule as a feature of the Bethany way of life) that one is shoulder to shoulder with all without any exceptions whatsoever. I am firmly, by design and by choice, in the community of those despised and rejected, for example, and what I call "the 21st century lepers" and very happy and honoured to be here especially considering the teachings of Jesus e.g. “whatever you do to even the least of My brethren, you have done it to Me†and an assurance that Jesus is not at all like some secular and worldly thought. He stands totally with one and all. I belong to other communities within our general community. Most of us probably do, I think. And even in other communities, even quite secular in nature, we have the same call and vocation. Some years back our head of psychiatry, Dr Margaret Tobin, was murdered (by a fellow psychiatrist). At her Requiem Mass in our Cathedral, the eulogy was given by Dr Tobin’s brother. He commented that those who are mentally ill were the most marginalised, abandoned and rejected members in the general community. I see this reflected in the Life and most especially in the Death of Jesus…..and in His Resurrection and the astounding consequences for our human history. I see too the Life and Death of Jesus – and indeed His Resurrection reflected in the life of St Therese of Lisieux for one – and the astounding consequences, in our Catholic history for one, of the humble and hidden life of this great saint and Doctor of The Church…….after her death. Hers is the life of a great saint which does give hope and aspiration, a sense of dignity, to the very least considered and valued wherever they may dwell in our midst. Jesus after all lived a much hidden and quite humble life to our knowledge for 30 years. His very public years were only three and he was hounded by criticism by ‘sound religious authority’ of His day and of His own Faith Profession - and His Life concluded with His shocking execution as a criminal. His Resurrection came after His death of course, revealing His Glory and the Glory and Victory of His Terrible Death. And this is not to reflect here on the life of His mother and another hidden and humble life with astounding consequences for our human history……….after her death. Our own Aussie St Mary of The Cross (Mary MacKillop) also journeyed on earth with much suffering in her life, even excommunication for a while, later lifted. Because our Residents in Heaven are so admired by us here on earth and held up for admiration when canonized, we can forget just how much their lives on earth were often troubled and very difficult for many of them. It is not so much often what they suffered - as how they suffered what they suffered. I am equal to the most corrupt of sinners and to the greatest of the earth bound virtuous (and all the in-betweens) and simply because we find our equality in that we are all equally beloved children of God created by Him for a life purpose and final purpose and embracing all without exemption. We ARE ALL beloved children of The Father. This is not an intellectual reasoning of mine although it probably is in part. Rather it is more so something that I do feel very deeply, in my bones as it were, and with conviction on my part which fashions my attitude to others – never without falling at times however. Sometimes to behave in a manner that reflects what I really do believe can be quite a challenge, even quite a sacrifice to pride and ego. For me, pride and ego are always lurking somewhere or other. Most often, happily, it is not at all difficult if one strives to incline oneself towards the good in a person, rather than inclined towards the opposite in them (my rule of life again). That attitude and belief is an aspiration and goal, ideal, in my rule of life. “In Him WE live and move and have OUR being†Astounding words of St Paul the great apostle and mystic. See Chapter 17 of Acts – Paul is persecuted and yet continues his mission and in one part, with some humour, at least in modern terms and perhaps even in his own cultural understanding. http://www.drbo.org/chapter/51017.htm Scripture is not at all without moments of real humour. ( “Between Heaven and Mirth†- Fr James Martin) Where some might misunderstand the term “Private Vows†and for my purposes and the subject in general, it is a Canon Law term with its own definition and regulations. In secular understanding “private†might mean ‘secret’ or similar. Rather a quick check of the dictionary.com definition is multiple http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/private and also incorporates the Canon Law meaning i.e. belonging to some particular person pertaining to or affecting a particular person or a small group of persons; individual; personal To my way of thinking, if others do misunderstand the term “private vows†then best to express it and one can try to respond and clarify. No problem whatsoever to me. If someone has a question, no matter what it might be, then to me, it is worthy of an answer. ____________ Re Receiving and Renewal of my private vows at a Home Mass. It is not as if I have done this lightly and without spiritual advice - and permission through our Vicar General, who consulted our Archbishop, who gave his permission - and then, as required, from my parish priest, since the Home Mass would take place in his parish. All has proceeded as it should and needed to proceed. Re debating. I did have a look at the Forum Rules. I try to stay in touch with the various rules wherever they may be stated here or elsewhere - but am often remiss and fail. “All authority comes from God†(St Paul). I couldn't see any reason why I could not pose the question I did flowing from something that I had read i.e. that public vows are a public act of worship by The Church, which set me wondering re private vows and their place if any – since, as it seemed to me, that it must follow as theologically logical and reasonable, that private vow or vows (of any kind) are therefore a private act of worship by The Church. The one hesitancy I have is that the fact that The Church has created the consecrated state of life (public vows) may mean something theologically that I am missing – and a distinct potential at least. I do not know. If I am wrong in posing the question into debate, then that is ok with me too - no heresy committed. I really would not know re debate forums. The question posed for debate is as in my opening post - if any debate does indeed follow. If not, no problem – objective still attained. To further reveal my own thinking - everything we who are baptised say think and do is either an act of worship - or the opposite, since "In Him we live, move and breathe and have our being" (see Acts Ch17) Astounding statement! I once asked a priest religious and theologian: “What exactly is liturgy, Father?†He replied: “Everything you say, think and doâ€. Think about it. I also looked up "debate" on Google http://dni.idebate.org/about/debate/what
BarbTherese Posted July 5, 2014 Author Posted July 5, 2014 Heh. I think it's ok here. Actually I think there's a better chance of getting a debate going on this topic in Vocation Station :P But seriously it would have been fine in vocation staton too (although I'd move it if civility goes away akin to what has happened with other threads). Thank you. :)
BarbTherese Posted July 5, 2014 Author Posted July 5, 2014 I did think it just might be/could be quite contentious and heated as at least a possibility - hence debate forum. I did want to avoid any possibility of debate in the Open Mic thread. I certainly knew when I posted that I would stand my ground unless someone had more sound and informed information theologically than I do - and this was a possibility at least, but I would want to have something very sound to back up that information - not just opinion and no matter how many letters came after the name. I did give an address to an assembly here in Adelaide by invitation on "Women's Role in The Church" and spoke as a lay person with private vows to the evangelical counsels with a specific Gospel way of life - and who suffered a mental illness. After my address and with His Grace and some other panel members with impressive letters after their name fired some questions, which I answered - and I still retain fond memories of that day. Must admit, however, that after that address and the questions and answers, I fled to the bus stop (and a smoke) and a bus home to Bethany again - still laughing. His Grace did say to me prior to my address at half time "Don't be nervous, Barbara". "I'm not nervous, Your Grace" and very very strangely, I wasn't. Perhaps I had dropped half an Oxazepam, I really cannot recall. I had been told initially I had ten minutes for the address, I was contacted just before the assembly to say I had much longer. It was all recorded and videod. I was still trying to alter my written down address on the bus to the assembly in an effort to make it much longer. In the end totally confused really and in the address, I just ad-libbed the whole thing. My joke at the end fell flat on its face, perhaps due to my stunned audience : "Thank goodness we do not have to learn this new Catholic Catechism off by heart as we did pre Vatican II" as I glanced briefly at His Grace. His Grace was smiling - if no one else. I have put a link to this thread into my thread on Private Vows Home Mass in Open Mic.
BarbTherese Posted July 5, 2014 Author Posted July 5, 2014 I used to have a saying for myself in my previous suburb - now 5 years ago In September 2014. It was a suburb rife with poverty and every imaginable I think social problem. They were very suspicious of me when I first shifted there (Bethany was there for 30 years but actually began in a previous suburb while I was still trying to stay in the workforce, despite bipolar episodes, and had a car and rented house - prior to being pensioned off on disability, now age pension). I think they were so suspicious of me because I was so friendly trying to get to know my neighbours. The saying for myself I had was "If you can't beat 'em, infiltrate". They used to call me "The crazy lady" (even before they knew of my mental illness). By the time I left, they didn't call me crazy any more.........just plain "Barb" - although down the local pub whenever I walked in, the cry went up "The flying nun!" :) Once down the local after Mass reading our local Catholic magazine "The Southern Cross" and drinking coke. Some guy came up to me and said "You are not wanted here". I replied "Oh I didn't know that, I am just here to read the paper and have a drink on Sunday". He paused for a bit, I don't know, perhaps waiting for me to leave. I just continued to read. And then said "Can I sit down?" "Sure, have a seat". We sat quiet for a bit and then some exchange of weather etc. and then he said: "My wife and I have just split up...........etc................"............. I got to know an aboriginal family near me after taking a jar of coffee as a welcoming gift. I was instructed by a male voice to go away, so I left the coffee with a welcome note on the front verandah and left. His wife told me further down the line that I was the only white person he would allow in the house. My big mistake was the night they all decided to go down the local and dragged me along - and we eventually were kicked out by the bouncers after I had spent all my pension buying drinks for them. :) Truly great people and overly generous and thoughtful to family and friends - just do not get our culture at times and not one bit. Their sense of the funny was delightful. I was amazed one night over for coffee and visitors arrived with quite a few children. The noise in the house of children arguing and playing was alarming. After a while my neighbour got up and said "Cmon kids, time for bed". I could see the children forming a line out of the bathroom as they had a wash. They were settled in the lounge wherever there was space and after a while, on decidedly assertive instructions and some arguing, almost sudden silence descended and remained. Very fond memories indeed, and I miss them all............. and I've probably more anecdotes than the proverbial cat with fleas. :)
BarbTherese Posted July 5, 2014 Author Posted July 5, 2014 (edited) Heh. I think it's ok here. Actually I think there's a better chance of getting a debate going on this topic in Vocation Station :P But seriously it would have been fine in vocation staton too (although I'd move it if civility goes away akin to what has happened with other threads). A question, cmaD, does this mean that the subject of private vows and/or the lay celibate state can be raised in Vocation Station as a subject for a thread, or only in relation to a thread on consecrated life? The rules on the forum seem a bit hazy to me - and not too difficult to confuse me: "Phatmass shall only be used to promote vocations that have official diocesan approval. Any post that links to a website, community, or vocation that is not recognized by the Church shall result in a warning. Multiple warning shall result in a ban from Phatmass." It raises that question (and ok to debate it in this thread - The Spirit leads where He May) whether the vocation to the lay celibate state (with our without any sort of private vows) is a vocation "recognized by The Church"? The lay celibate state is mentioned in at least one Document pre VII I know of - and then a couple after that Council - and favourably. Certainly, the website of my own diocese states: "As well as the vocation to priesthood, religious life, marriage and single life, there is also vocation to the diaconate and to lay ecclesial ministry within the Church." http://www.adelaide.catholic.org.au/our-faith/vocations/what-is-a-vocation- Our Archbishop Philip Wilson was past president of the Aust. Catholic Bishops' Conference. Must admit, it still seems to be a point of theological debate at times. I'm not trying to be 'funny' but genuinely seeking the answer. Edited July 5, 2014 by BarbaraTherese
BarbTherese Posted July 5, 2014 Author Posted July 5, 2014 (edited) Mmm - this is a new one to me. I accessed the above link via Google "archdiocese of Adelaide vocation" and the page came up ok. I then went to the link in the left hand column and the page came up no problems i.e. "What is a vocation?" The link I gave in my previous post comes up with "Page no longer available". Perhaps the link is not correct somehow. Edited July 5, 2014 by BarbaraTherese
Nunsense Posted July 5, 2014 Posted July 5, 2014 A question, cmaD, does this mean that the subject of private vows and/or the lay celibate state can be raised in Vocation Station as a subject for a thread, or only in relation to a thread on consecrated life? The rules on the forum seem a bit hazy to me - and not too difficult to confuse me: "Phatmass shall only be used to promote vocations that have official diocesan approval. Any post that links to a website, community, or vocation that is not recognized by the Church shall result in a warning. Multiple warning shall result in a ban from Phatmass." It raises that question (and ok to debate it in this thread - The Spirit leads where He May) whether the vocation to the lay celibate state (with our without any sort of private vows) is a vocation "recognized by The Church"? The lay celibate state is mentioned in at least one Document pre VII I know of - and then a couple after that Council - and favourably. Certainly, the website of my own diocese states: "As well as the vocation to priesthood, religious life, marriage and single life, there is also vocation to the diaconate and to lay ecclesial ministry within the Church." http://www.adelaide.catholic.org.au/our-faith/vocations/what-is-a-vocation- Our Archbishop Philip Wilson was past president of the Aust. Catholic Bishops' Conference. Must admit, it still seems to be a point of theological debate at times. I'm not trying to be 'funny' but genuinely seeking the answer. That is certainly an excellent question Barb. I think you have posted a lot in Open Mic and Transmundane Lane about your vocation and not so much in VS so perhaps it would be good to have some clarity on whether these posts belong in VS as well. I know that dUSt once started a thread about not using VS to post threads about marriage, even though it is an approved vocation of the Church (and a sacrament). I have pasted his opening post below with a link to the thread. The thread went on for 8 pages and it's worth reading through the whole thing, I think, for all the points of view. I know that you are not posting about marriage but I saw similarities in your question and the issue he raised. What belongs in which forum? The thread quoted does state that everyone is free to post in VS, whether discerning religious life or not, and to discuss things like other vocations and marriage, but he was not wanting any threads started about marriage because his intention was for the forum to focus on religious life. It was probably assumed though that 'religious life' also includes other consecrated states such as CV, CH, or Deacon because these have certainly been discussed on VS (and threads started about them). His post makes no comment about starting threads about non-consecrated states such as the single lay celibate lifestyle however. So perhaps a ruling from him or a mod might be helpful to all of us? The link is in the title of his thread. DON'T START THREADS FOCUSING ON MARRIAGE IN HERE. Started by dUSt, Dec 28 2011 10:20 AM DUST Phounder PHORUM BOSS 15,849 posts CATHOLIC Posted 28 December 2011 - 10:20 AM CRAZY DOPE POST, YO! I know marriage is a vocation, but this board is for phuture nuns and priests. I know the name is "Vocation Station", but if you read the fine print under the description, it specifically indicates religious life. Being married is great, but this board was created to foster and encourage religious vocations, which is a superior calling. Thanks. If you don't like it, then leave and go find a spouse who cares about your feelings. :lol:
BarbTherese Posted July 5, 2014 Author Posted July 5, 2014 (edited) LOL. Hi Nunsense, I vaguely recall the thread and certainly the post from Dust, which latter you quoted in full. I did laugh at the time with a guilty feeling since that post ended in a rather nasty dismissal - and yet to my mind with a clever twist I thought (once it home, that is) and I laughed even more and felt even more guilty..........all as it were. Ah well, tis dUSt and our fearless leader and he or she (unsure) makes the rules for Phatmass and when we join up it is either a direct statement one accepts or it is implied (to my mind) .......... I can't recall the details of joining up or registering or whatever it is called. St Paul tells us that all authority comes from God in all, of course, that is not sinful. Romans Ch13 V1 - http://www.drbo.org/chapter/52013.htm Be all this as it may, I will be very interested in cmaD's response as Phatmass Regulator because rules and regulations in organizations etc. can change. Anyway, I will not be venturing over to the Vocations Phorum with a thread about the single lay celibate state as vocation without some sort of official Phatmass type leverage behind me :) ........even then, I would probably shake in my shoes going by some other past threads in VS. Like AL, I do not embrace conflict - but sometimes it can be sorta shoved down one's throat as it were and one might need to stand ground. I do think, however, that "Vocations Forum" is a bit of a misnomer if all potential vocations in The Church are not included - rather some emphatically excluded including a Sacramental call and vocation (marriage) - as a Catholic forum anyway, or at least a clearer statement in the rules for the forum. Perhaps a change is in order .......... "The Some Vocations Station" :notme: and a "All other vocations Station". :notme: But then who on earth am I.........just one of the troops! :) I am happy to follow whatever is decided...........sin excepted of course! LOL ...............and just go with the flow. The fine print under the title of the forum reads: "Contemplating religious life? It's a party for all you priest and nun wannabes!"...........nothing about only for priest and nun wannabes and anyone else back off and get out. Although the quote from dUSt's post you gave certainly makes his or her decision quite clear! Perhaps I am dense............ and happy to be there. :) :notworthy: All hail! dUSt!........... wherever and whoever you might be. Rules for Phatmass http://www.phatmass.com/phorum-guidelines/ CCC 1900 The duty of obedience requires all to give due honor to authority and to treat those who are charged to exercise it with respect, and, insofar as it is deserved, with gratitude and good-will. Pope St. Clement of Rome provides the Church's most ancient prayer for political authorities:18 "Grant to them, Lord, health, peace, concord, and stability, so that they may exercise without offense the sovereignty that you have given them. Master, heavenly King of the ages, you give glory, honor, and power over the things of earth to the sons of men. Direct, Lord, their counsel, following what is pleasing and acceptable in your sight, so that by exercising with devotion and in peace and gentleness the power that you have given to them, they may find favor with you."19 _____________ ...........things to do still at 8.09pm and a bed to hit at a reasonable time - Mass in the morning. Far too much time on this jolly computer. One thing I have discovered today is that I can still use this laptop for Word and printing with the internet disconnected...........I think! :) Will check it out with Optus before I do anything rash I will regret. Edited July 5, 2014 by BarbaraTherese
Nunsense Posted July 5, 2014 Posted July 5, 2014 As usual Barb, you write with grace and a willingness to cooperate with authority. If anyone has read through that the whole thread of dUSt's, they will see that it generated a lot of emotion and heat, but a lot of charity as well -- with dUSt taking time to address all the issues that were raised. But of course, at the time, no one had even suggested a vocation such as your own, which might be unique in its application. I hope you get some kind of guidelines about starting a thread on it in VS, but by posting in the places you usually do, your threads about your vocation have probably had a lot more readers than they would over in VS, since some people in VS never step outside the place! :) I meant to say that I loved your own post on dUSt's thread - which came around page 7. Here it is... BARBARATHERESE PM Pham CHUMMY COMMONER 2,784 posts CATHOLIC Posted 29 December 2011 - 12:40 AM 'dUSt', on 29 Dec 2011 - 4:05 PM, said: I don't understand what I could have done differently without making anybody mad. I want this to be a board that focuses on priesthood and religious life, because I think the church has placed great importance on that. "The Vocation Station" has already been referred to by name in many articles, blogs, radio interviews, etc, so I don't think it would be a good idea to change it. I'm honestly at a loss. I hope you all can forgive my lack of better leadership in this situation. I think you leadership is absolutely spot on, dUSt! ...... I think that your initial statement "don't start focusing on marriage in here" was initially misunderstood in that we are not to initiate threads on any other subject but religious life and the priesthood in "Vocation Station" and fair enough - our instructions from leadership. This misunderstanding developed into what is a "vocation" and was probably off topic. Apologies there for "off topic". Because I have a personal problem with the term "Vocation Station" is purely and simply 'my problem' and nothing that causes me any sort of grief. "All authority comes from God" St Paul tells us and hence if you want it "Vocation Station" limited to threads on religious life and priesthood, so be it! You are our leadership and authority on Phatmass and personally I think you do a great job. We haven't been asked to date to plant cabbages upside down :winner:(we have a saint who was asked to do so by her novice mistress. And so she did) The fact that Phatmass Phorum and Vocation Station has such an excellent referral on the internet and elsewhere is the best of reasons to keep things as they have been - and that was threads on religious life and the priesthood in Vocation Station. I think sub forums in the "Vocation Station" would be a good idea, but then I am only one of the troops - one of the 'faces in the pew' as it were with no other problems nor duties but to read and post away and at times to the headache, I am sure, of leadership and others. We love youse all too, dUst! God richly bless you and thank you for Phatmass Phorum and Vocation Station .............. I hope you had a great Christmas............Barb Lil Red gave this props GIVE PROPS May The Holy Spirit kindle in us the Fire of His Love and His Consolations. Re
BarbTherese Posted July 5, 2014 Author Posted July 5, 2014 :) One thing I must make very clear, it occurred to me while locking up, and from something said in another forum quite some time ago, with which I agree. No one can give anyone permission to make a private vow or vows. The individual makes their own decision - wisely and prudently I think after seeking advice and certainly ensuring they are know what they are doing and the implications..........and one can to a certain point which means they do know what they are doing and the implications..........a more full understanding might unfold further on in the journey. Ideally, it will since the vocational commitment is a journey on a few levels and to my mind will continue for the length of that private vow and commitment. His Grace DID NOT give me permission to make private vows to the evangelical counsels, nor anything else connected to my way of life. That was all long years "fait accompli" and my decision alone, except for the Receiving of the private vows. He gave me permission to have a Home Mass with the purpose of receiving and renewing my private vows to EC. It was my previous director (religious sister) that seemed to think it was important that I have the vows received and why I raised the subject with Father John...........from that it all unfolded as it has to today. Bon soir! Medication taken and in probably around an hour I will be fast asleep until the alarm tomorrow...............and Mass and with a prayer that this thread just fizzles out if nothing to contribute to the opening post. Alleluia! Amen................but then The Holy Spirit leads as HE May and sometimes one thinks things are going all awry and off the track but sometimes only if one embraces it and follows it in the darkness as to where on earth things are going (and important to this human often). Surprise! Surprise! Our God of Surprises.
Nunsense Posted July 5, 2014 Posted July 5, 2014 You always put things in such a beautiful way. Yes, private vows can be made without asking permission from anyone else (although I know that often a spiritual director can help someone to determine whether this is something they want to do). I made my private vows in 2007 following a Mass at the Cathedral in Singapore (I made them privately - not in public - but under spiritual direction) but it wasn't until 2011 that I actually had any kind of external expression of these vows. I was between convents, living as a hermit in the bush, when it came time to renew my vows (which I do annually, privately). At that time, because of the events that had recently happened, I thought that I was never actually going to become a nun, and although I had spoken briefly with the Bishop about becoming a Diocesan hermit and I was living a hermit life, I was still undecided about pursuing that particular vocation. The only thing I knew for sure was that the private vows I had made were for life, and that private vows would probably have to 'be enough' for me, despite my longing for religious life. But I wanted to express my commitment in some external way at that time, so I went out and bought a wedding ring and had it engraved on the inside with 'Sponsa Christi' and with the date I had first made my private vows. Then I went to a Mass and afterwards met with the priest and explained the whole thing, about my vows and the ring I had just purchased. He was completely supportive and blessed my ring as a sacramental, and then gave me his blessing on my private vows. Even though none of this had any validity in canon law, it still made me feel accepted and loved by God and even helped me to stay on track during a time of grief and loss over my dreams for religious life. I wear the wedding ring to this day and I know that even when I do make profession as a nun (God be willing please), in my heart, I will always consider the date of my private vows as the anniversary of my 'real first profession'. You have been incredibly blessed by the circumstances that have led to this wonderful event in your life - the celebration of the renewal of your private vows in public, at a Mass, with others helping you to share your joy! It sounds as if everything has unfolded in a wondrous and beautiful way. I hope it makes you feel as loved as a simple wedding ring and blessing did for me when I needed it most. :)
BarbTherese Posted July 6, 2014 Author Posted July 6, 2014 Thank you very much, nunsense - that was really beautiful and much appreciated. I am very much aware that there are probably very many who have made private vows and may keep them secret. What I am doing might be an option for some. Certainly, as always, spiritual direction is advised to my way of thought, while private vows do not demand (as it were) spiritual direction. I never would have considered I don;'t think having the vows received if my previous spiritual director had not raised the subject and with some concern that I had never had them received. Frankly, I never thought I would be as well as I am- still a sufferer of Bipolar as there is no known cure, but I seem to be more in control of it than it of me. My silver ring and cross will be blessed at the Home Mass - I will have the ring engraved after, though no idea just yet what it will state besides the date of the Home Mass. When I first raised the subject of receiving my private vows - I had no idea then what was going to follow. I was even surprised that Father was happy to discuss the subject with me in the first place. Where on earth a Home Mass came from, I can no longer t recall. It was suffering a mental illness severely for many years that taught me to just live for today, yesterday is past so forget it - and tomorrow is not yet and anything could occur. I just learnt to live like that for so long it is conditioned into me - and you would know all about conditioning through your experience on staff in mental health. I do know after many years indeed of not having the vows received and cruising on on my own without telling others about the private vows, I was not as conscious of my behaviour as I am now that the Home Mass draws closer - and this is a good thing I think. I am given to fine Aussie expletives once I get to know a person, or caught off guard in some sudden situation like spilling milk. Even if I am all 'alone' now, I find myself apologising for the cuss word (though not the worst of them thankfully). I swear and then say "Scuse me Lord". Now I am wary that something will happen at work suddenly and I will drop a swear word and say "Scuse me Lord"................and I haven't told them I suffer Bipolar. Oh goodness, what excuse shall I give.............oh well, can always fess up about Bipolar. I really feel that Our Lady is very much in the picture and I have always had Our Lady on the highest pedestal imaginable as the absolute essence of holiness, womanhood and motherhood - and oh so very high above me somewhere in the clouds as it were. I used to say to her "I am sorry dear mother, but I think I identify more with your outspoken Son". Now I feel them both very close to me and I am trying very hard to watch my p's and q's. :) Trying, incidentally, is not an indication whatsoever of success. In my previous suburb, I really focused on 'infiltrating' since I sure couldn't beat 'em - and using their colourful language (tho never to extremes) were my first steps in the 'infiltration process'. I recall one day reading a Gospel in which Jesus said "brood of vipers" and itclicked to me that probably Jesus swore - in His culture. I felt I could now quite happily and feeling justified keep working on the 'infiltration first steps'. My psychiatrist visited me in the early days of my shifting to that suburbs - she commented "You are suffering from culture shock". I used to be somewhere back I can hardly recall, such a refined type of person, although always outspoken if I felt the need. Father John picked the Assumption as the date (I wanted just an ordinary Saturday and dedicated to Our Lady always). And he has made our final appointment on the feast of Our Lady of Mt Carmel - and I'm visiting Carmel here on the 17th and the day after. I used to wear a cross on aleather thong. But Father commented one day "You look just like a nun" - once home the cross and leather thong was put in storage. I now wear a silver cross on a chain and where the cross came from I have no idea either..........some yesterday somewhere. I was able to buy two silver chains on EBay for $5 each - my very first EBay purchase. All went as it should. As always, I am just taking things one day at a time forgetting yesterday and tomorrow is a mystery. It will all unfold as it may. I must admit that it all seems far to grand for me. But I am very grateful that my family and friends will be present and already are sharing in my Joy - and I am overboard about it all even tho it is really far too grand for me. Most of all I am grateful that family and friends now know about my private vows and something about my way of life (I am leaving the rule out on a table at the Mass if they would like to have a look). They will be the one's to keep me behaving myself!!! ......................I hope! My only real reservation about it all is that I am hoping I wont cry. Father John says "That won't matter at all". Not to him and probably no-one else, but I think perhaps it will to me. But that is for 'tomorrow' and anything can happen before or on the morrow . Above written very quickly indeed. Time presses Catcha on the rounds............Barb
BarbTherese Posted July 6, 2014 Author Posted July 6, 2014 You have been singularly blessed too, I think, nunsense. Though I am sure it has been a very difficult road for you rather often and perhaps often too a walk in spiritual darkness in every way. Insofar as you have written about it here or on your blog that was, I have followed you. For me, I am conditioned to problems in life and what I am finding very hard to shake is that conditioning. Having some experience with conditioning I know (and you would too) it takes a while before one is conditioned and it will take equally a while perhaps a long while before one can shake it off completely - and providing all goes along as one hopes. These days I do leave it very much up to The Lord which does not mean that the human part of me is very human indeed - very. Hard to explain but I am sure you will know what I mean. What have I done to deserve anything................nothing whatsoever! I never planned to walk the road that I have either in a positive or negative course. It just happened.
CatherineM Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 My husband and I are pretty much full time advocates for the mentally ill. Having a reason to get up in the morning, and a reason to stay on your meds, is critical to your overall health and happiness. Giving speeches and trying to educate the public to fight stigma, is that reason for my husband.
Nunsense Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 You have been singularly blessed too, I think, nunsense. Though I am sure it has been a very difficult road for you rather often and perhaps often too a walk in spiritual darkness in every way. Insofar as you have written about it here or on your blog that was, I have followed you. For me, I am conditioned to problems in life and what I am finding very hard to shake is that conditioning. Having some experience with conditioning I know (and you would too) it takes a while before one is conditioned and it will take equally a while perhaps a long while before one can shake it off completely - and providing all goes along as one hopes. These days I do leave it very much up to The Lord which does not mean that the human part of me is very human indeed - very. Hard to explain but I am sure you will know what I mean. What have I done to deserve anything................nothing whatsoever! I never planned to walk the road that I have either in a positive or negative course. It just happened. I never doubt my own blessings from God -- when I can see them :P And who among us ever deserves anything? If God only gave us what we deserved, it would be a pretty grim world indeed. But I don't always recognize my blessings because blessings don't always appear to us clothed in light and joy. I think that might be one of the things that being a Christian is all about - trying to trust that even things that threaten to destroy us can become sources of renewal and life. When Jesus died, His disciples didn't leap for joy, even though they had heard Him promise that He would rise again in three days. They grieved because they couldn't see how this was possible until He actually appeared before them again, and even at that time, they didn't immediately recognize or understand the blessing that His death had been for the whole world. He spent some time with them, trying to help them understand what had happened and why. Then He left them again, probably another painful experience for the disciples, but He explained that it was necessary that He leave so that He could send them the Holy Spirit. Another blessing in disguise. Our own lives can be full of pain and suffering, but they are also full of grace and blessings - sometimes it's just a little difficult to understand how they can work together for renewal and rebirth in our soul - how what appears to be suffering, can actually be a doorway to blessings. A few years ago, I seemed to have endless trust in God - no matter how wrong things went, or how bad they seemed, I was sure that He knew me personally and that all was for my own good. I don't know how real or strong that trust was though because as bad things continued to happen, I started to doubt that He loved or even cared about me - and I went through some seriously dark places. I'm glad that I was able to get angry at Him for His apparent lack of concern though, because even being angry with Him kept me focused on Him and close to Him. He 'broke' me but as Leonard Cohen wrote, "There is a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in." So maybe I needed to be broken to make some cracks? And comfort can be found in the strangest places, even anger. I think conditioning just means something stuck in memory. It takes time and effort to incorporate new memories into the old ones and to 'recondition' ourselves. But sometimes, like with St Rita, God lifts us up above where we are and puts us someplace else and we can actually take a step beyond our our conditioning. This is when we start seeing that the everyday events in our lives are miracles and blessings that have always been there - but we have been too far down in the hole to see them. Why He does this is as mysterious as why He allows suffering to happen - only He can see the whole plan. You have faced enormous challenges in your life. So has CatherineM (read her book if you haven't already - it is very inspiring) and once we start looking around, we can see so many examples of people who have faced incredible obstacles, challenges and suffering, and persevered. I am a big fan of perseverance, persistence and patience. Catherine's book really inspired me when she was facing a serous weight issue - she wrote about starting to walk just a short distance every day until she was actually walk long distances. Every single step made a difference. Talk about perseverance, persistence and patience in action! Barb, you and I are both experiencing visible blessings in our lives right now (as opposed to the 'hidden' ones that often challenge us). Jesus said that while the Bridegroom was with them, His disciples should rejoice. Maybe now is our time to rejoice and not worry about how we got here. Heaven knows there will be challenges aplenty waiting for us down the road again when the blessings are a little harder to see. So please try to enjoy the experience of your Home Mass and renewal of vows. Given your Bipolar, you might find yourself stressing out over everything, or obsessing about it. But it should be a time of happiness for you - rejoice and let what happens happen. I am one of those people who is incredibly organized and can achieve great things in short amounts of times (great with paperwork, bureaucracy and red tape too, even though I detest it). But one of the reasons for this skill is that I hate the idea of being 'out of control'. I want to know that everything has been thought out, organized, set up, and will occur as planned. But we all know that no one can plan for the unforeseen and that 'control' is really just an illusion. We do the best we can, and then we have to take a step back and 'let go, let God' and trust that whatever happens, we did all that we could. I hope this event doesn't become a stress for you. I hope you can relax and enjoy it. I always try to remind myself that whatever it is that is going to happen, there will be a time when it is all over. I use this when I have to go to the dentist. If I have an appointment on a Thursday, I tell myself, well Friday will come and it will all be over. I could be totally wrong about this and you aren't under any stress about the event - I hope so. I really want you to enjoy the fruits of your labors. Many prayers.
BarbTherese Posted July 6, 2014 Author Posted July 6, 2014 Thank you both for the posts. I will be respond in about 24hrs. (tomorrow night here in Adelaide)...............Barb :)
BarbTherese Posted July 6, 2014 Author Posted July 6, 2014 Hi CatherineM J I am not going to respond tonight to your really excellent post! And I will reply to nunsense tomorrow night too. May The Lord ever travel with you and your hubby as I am sure that He is and may The Holy Spirit be both your guides and sensitivity, intelligence – your energy and motivation. And with nunsense too, as I am sure that He does. Amen. I just might be saying all you knew anyway and forgive if this is so! The one thing that sufferers of mental illness really DO NEED and towards integrating into the general community, is a theology to make sense of all that they are going through. And unimaginable suffering to a ‘sound and normal’ mind. As you are probably aware, most all sufferers have a religious Faith and while the Faith remains, the theology around it can be all distorted and even quite weird and way out sometimes - and a problem of an ill mind alone. Just as a man with a bad leg limps - and one expects nothing more of a man with a bad leg. I don’t think psychiatry knows which comes first, the cart or the horse. Are people religious prior to any mental illness, or does it come after – nor does it really matter one little bit, save of course it is a problem perhaps still, I don’t know, for psychiatry as a science. The biggest hurdle sufferers of mental illness are going to have to face and surmount is first, isolation – due to the stigma prevailing in society. The second is that stigma itself. Another very important place in sufferers establishing a place in the general community is SUPPORT – VITALLY IMPORTANT! and support in the community prepared to support them - and most important of all is to discern who exactly is important to them. Once that is discerned to get hold of those important people and striving to get them to understand mental illness. The truth of it. And with the sufferer present if possible. Sometimes the sufferer can be too ill. I have some other scholarly articles from ETheology I think it is called and on mental illness - Australian students of theology. I'll hunt them out in my files and post when I can. If the sufferer has a religious Faith profession, then it is important to get the key member in that community i.e. priest etc. and they sit in on the above gathering. And get them there whether they like it or not by stressing the importance of it. I have heard priests and Catholic priests saying some terrible things about sufferers of mental illness, at times not realizing that I was a sufferer. Don’t take it for granted that because The Universal Church has great things to say about sufferers of mental illness and it is all very true – but it is not always filtering down to the parish level as a practice they are prepared to implement. This really does grieve me and I’ve seen firsthand on psyche wards the damage it can do. The sense of complete abandonment even by God because their Faith community and leadership have abandoned them - if not literally, if you know what I mean. The façade remains. Catcha again tomorrow night, until then God’s richest blessings on you and your hubby and yours………and the vitally important work to which you have committed yourselves……and again, forgive me if you knew it all already and I am 'preaching to the coverted'……….Barb :) I thought you might like to read http://www.zenit.org/en/articles/the-mentally-ill-patient-a-faithful-image-of-god I don’t know if this is the Cardinal’s full speech as the links I have on file to the full speech have been taken down from the net and it is now fairly old. I have tried but to date have not found his full address but will keep on the hunt...........and put it into Word this time and send you links - probably in a post since then it is open to all and you just never know who might read and take something on board that is new to them. A planted seed. The Mentally Ill Patient: A Faithful Image of God Cardinal Lozano Barragán\'s Address at World Day of the Sick ADELAIDE, Australia, FEB. 18, 2006 (Zenit.org).- Here is an excerpt of an address Cardinal Javier Lozano Barragán, president of the Pontifical Council for Health Care Workers, prepared for World Day of the Sick. The main events of the World Day were held Feb. 9-11 in Adelaide.
BarbTherese Posted July 7, 2014 Author Posted July 7, 2014 My husband and I are pretty much full time advocates for the mentally ill. Having a reason to get up in the morning, and a reason to stay on your meds, is critical to your overall health and happiness. Giving speeches and trying to educate the public to fight stigma, is that reason for my husband. Highly valued and very important work, CM. Those who suffer mental illness and mental health workers stay in my intentions daily. Definitely - having a reason to get up in the morning and a resolution to stay on medication is vitally important for those who suffer mental illness. Problem can be that finding a reason to get up can be problematic for those who do suffer MI because there is an unwillingness to employ them paid or voluntary - if that is the avenue they seek and the way in which they would like to travel. It is a massive problem. I went through a long passage of a horrible feeling of absolute isolation, even though I had people around me and perhaps it came largely about because I could not really discuss openly with those who were around me how I was feeling and experiencing life. It is amazing how lonely one can feel in a crowd. The struggle against stigma and educating generally about the dreadful damage it can do and long term - even worsen a sufferer's condition..........and educating on the truth of mental illness..........is vitally important. What the general community may not realise is that it is very much often up to them how well a person becomes - or how ill they stay.
BarbTherese Posted July 7, 2014 Author Posted July 7, 2014 I never doubt my own blessings from God -- when I can see them :P And who among us ever deserves anything? If God only gave us what we deserved, it would be a pretty grim world indeed. We are forever blest, huh ........... sometimes life's blessings come to us in the most weird and strangest of garments. But I don't always recognize my blessings because blessings don't always appear to us clothed in light and joy. I think that might be one of the things that being a Christian is all about - trying to trust that even things that threaten to destroy us can become sources of renewal and life. When Jesus died, His disciples didn't leap for joy, even though they had heard Him promise that He would rise again in three days. They grieved because they couldn't see how this was possible until He actually appeared before them again, and even at that time, they didn't immediately recognize or understand the blessing that His death had been for the whole world. He spent some time with them, trying to help them understand what had happened and why. Then He left them again, probably another painful experience for the disciples, but He explained that it was necessary that He leave so that He could send them the Holy Spirit. Another blessing in disguise. I think perhaps it is a culture problem and how we can be affected by it without realizing it. Definitely, The Church teaches the great value of suffering born as best one is able united to The Cross - it's overwhelming value.........seen in the lives of the saints. But I am affected by the culture in which I live, the secular culture, where suffering of any kind is to be avoided and no way is experienced as a blessing. This is where I needed to begin the journey of changing my perspectives and attitudes. To be Catholic Christian, one definitely is counter our secular culture. After all the crowing Glory of the Life of Jesus was His chocking death on a cross as a common criminal. United to His, our sufferings can be an offering of Glory to God. My heart really does go out to those who do suffer and some far far more than I could even imagine - especially if they do not have the treasure of the Gift of Faith. So very many suffering appallingly in our world and not for a day or two, some for a lifetime. Our own lives can be full of pain and suffering, but they are also full of grace and blessings - sometimes it's just a little difficult to understand how they can work together for renewal and rebirth in our soul - how what appears to be suffering, can actually be a doorway to blessings. A few years ago, I seemed to have endless trust in God - no matter how wrong things went, or how bad they seemed, I was sure that He knew me personally and that all was for my own good. I don't know how real or strong that trust was though because as bad things continued to happen, I started to doubt that He loved or even cared about me - and I went through some seriously dark places. I'm glad that I was able to get angry at Him for His apparent lack of concern though, because even being angry with Him kept me focused on Him and close to Him. He 'broke' me but as Leonard Cohen wrote, "There is a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in." So maybe I needed to be broken to make some cracks? Amen And comfort can be found in the strangest places, even anger. I think conditioning just means something stuck in memory. It takes time and effort to incorporate new memories into the old ones and to 'recondition' ourselves. But sometimes, like with St Rita, God lifts us up above where we are and puts us someplace else and we can actually take a step beyond our our conditioning. This is when we start seeing that the everyday events in our lives are miracles and blessings that have always been there - but we have been too far down in the hole to see them. Why He does this is as mysterious as why He allows suffering to happen - only He can see the whole plan. I have underlined and made bold the key word to m "mysterious". And mystery is just that - one cannot understand or find reasons etc. You have faced enormous challenges in your life. So has CatherineM (read her book if you haven't already - it is very inspiring) and once we start looking around, we can see so many examples of people who have faced incredible obstacles, challenges and suffering, and persevered. I am a big fan of perseverance, persistence and patience. Catherine's book really inspired me when she was facing a serous weight issue - she wrote about starting to walk just a short distance every day until she was actually walk long distances. Every single step made a difference. Talk about perseverance, persistence and patience in action! We are never given too much to bear. We only THINK we have too much to bear. Grace is with us but God is not pushy and does not inflict Himself on us. Grace is there, we need to accept it and respond. This is why I feel so much for people - Grace is in their lives to cope - but they do not know it and thus cannot respond as our Catholic spiritual theology teaches us. The world so desperately needs The Gospel and The Church and her theology. Working voluntary where I do, we have some appallingly tragic cases come in for help. Barb, you and I are both experiencing visible blessings in our lives right now (as opposed to the 'hidden' ones that often challenge us). Jesus said that while the Bridegroom was with them, His disciples should rejoice. Maybe now is our time to rejoice and not worry about how we got here. Heaven knows there will be challenges aplenty waiting for us down the road again when the blessings are a little harder to see. LOL, I have no idea whatsoever how I got here - none. Coming home tonight from vol. work I knew that it is all mystery and I just need to continue living day by day and leave all the why's etc. etc. aside. It is a mystery. So please try to enjoy the experience of your Home Mass and renewal of vows. Given your Bipolar, you might find yourself stressing out over everything, or obsessing about it. But it should be a time of happiness for you - rejoice and let what happens happen. I am one of those people who is incredibly organized and can achieve great things in short amounts of times (great with paperwork, bureaucracy and red tape too, even though I detest it). But one of the reasons for this skill is that I hate the idea of being 'out of control'. I want to know that everything has been thought out, organized, set up, and will occur as planned. But we all know that no one can plan for the unforeseen and that 'control' is really just an illusion. We do the best we can, and then we have to take a step back and 'let go, let God' and trust that whatever happens, we did all that we could. Not stressing one little bit, nunsense. And total Peace descended on the bus tonight when I realized I had to leave it all there. Mystery! My psychiatrist has tabs on things and her vote of confidence is that she doesn't want to see me again until mid Novermber - unless of course things should go wrong. I have her pager number if she cannot be contacted in the normal way. Once I page her, if I do, she is on the phone to me ASAP. She has a very responsible position indeed in a public hospital here that is her primary occupation. She only consults private once week. She knows that I will contact her immediately if I become suspicious and also that I don't abuse the privilege or her pager. When I shifted suburbs five years ago, she was so worried about me she had me phone her every second day. With the Home Mass, and she will be coming along if her diary permits, she is not in the least bit concerned. I hope this event doesn't become a stress for you. I hope you can relax and enjoy it. I always try to remind myself that whatever it is that is going to happen, there will be a time when it is all over. I use this when I have to go to the dentist. If I have an appointment on a Thursday, I tell myself, well Friday will come and it will all be over. I could be totally wrong about this and you aren't under any stress about the event - I hope so. I really want you to enjoy the fruits of your labors. Many prayers. Nope, not stressing especially now I had my 'flash' coming home tonight on the bus. All is very highly organized with willing and happy helpers and what happens will happen. A bridge too far for me at this point. Deal with whatever on the actual day. I've even done Thank You cards for those who do attend. I've just let go of all concerns or whatever - it is all mystery and the Home Mass is ahead and is in the pipeline; meanwhile, the days unfold as they may and " today's concerns are enough for today - tomorrow will take care of itself." And then after 15th August it will be in the past and a memory.......well if all goes well that is. No way I can know the future. Meanwhile, I have a journey of the days as they unfold. While it is all a mystery to me, I'm in excellent hands in Father John and also there is Diocesan approval plus my parish priest. Joking now..........don't take me seriously one little bit because I am laughing............all I need now is The Pope!!! Thanks heaps for the prayers and mine are with you and all................Barb
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