I'm Sorry, Robin Williams, Suicide Is Selfish

[blazeingstar]

I think that you are generalizing this too much Balzingstar. Yes you have a few stories to tell that are incredibly sad, but that does not mean that every story is like this.

 

I had a cousin who committed suicide six years ago. She was put on suicide watch at one point but seemed to be getting better. No one saw this coming!  I was too young to understand some of the things that might have pushed her to do this but I remember that it seemed like she had an amazing support system surrounding her and a promising future. Yet despite these facts, she still took her own life.

 

What ever it may have looked like on the outside clearly was not what was happening on the inside. She was depressed! She must have felt such incredible pain and darkness that the ONLY bright light that she saw was for her to take her own life. She was not trying to be brave or selfish. I am positive that if she thought that there were other options, she would have taken them.

 

No one knows what is going on in the mind of someone who is suicidal . Unless you have gone through this type of pain yourself, you have no authority to say what is going on in their mind. 

 

Oh, and my aunt, uncle, and cousin are still alive and I haven't heard if any of her friends committed suicide either. They are all moving on with their lives dealing with their grief as best as they can.

 

They are all 3 to 10 times more likely to commit suicide in their lifetimes.  That's the facts.  Just becuase they haven't dosn't mean it will never happen.
 

[blazeingstar]

'I have every right to my ignorant, offensive opinion, but you expressing your opinion is unkind'

 

Gotcha.

 

You don't like me, block me.  Crosscut said I wasn't entitled to my opinion and called it disgusting.  She's entitled to say she disagrees, but not to say I can't have my own feelings on the matter.

 

Again, feel free to block me, if you find me offensive.  Otherwise, the think I said about socks and rocks goes for you, too.

[Basilisa Marie]

It is selfish to think that your own love of someone should be enough to fix them. That's what you're saying, after all.  Right? That you want to be able to fix someone with your love? 

I've witnessed the fallout from suicide, and it's absolutely devastating, for years and years afterward, for so many people. People who experience depression need professional help, and even that's not a perfect solution. People process grief differently, and I get that. You can offer love, solidarity, and empathy to people who suffer - that's what we're supposed to do. But it's selfish and misguided to believe that your love can fix someone. Does it come from a desire to take on their burden for them? Because I really do understand that. 

 

Edited August 13, 2014 by Basilisa Marie

[4LoveofJMJ]

This is my thread, if you have hurt feelings go elseware.

 

You posted this on the debate table! Of course people are going to post their opinions! If you don't like the fact that people respond negatively to your opinions, then toughen up or stop posting.

[Credo in Deum]

CCC: Suicide

 

2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of.

 

2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.

 

2282 If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal. Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.

Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

 

2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

 

--------------------------------------------------------

 

While some suicides are performed with selfish motives we cannot say all of them are performed for this reason.  We also cannot say that a person who commits suicide is "brave" or is a person who "made the right decision".    In the end no one here knows the motives for Robin Williams suicide except God and Robin Williams.   What we do know is that God is Just and Merciful and that He understood Robins brokenness and pain better than anyone here.   With that said we should pray for his soul and for the safety and protection of everyone else who is at risk of suicide. 

[4LoveofJMJ]

They are all 3 to 10 times more likely to commit suicide in their lifetimes.  That's the facts.  Just becuase they haven't dosn't mean it will never happen.
 

 

Those may be facts, but it does not mean that it is absolutely going to happen like you make it out to be.

[4588686]

You don't like me, block me.  Crosscut said I wasn't entitled to my opinion and called it disgusting.  She's entitled to say she disagrees, but not to say I can't have my own feelings on the matter.

 

Again, feel free to block me, if you find me offensive.  Otherwise, the think I said about socks and rocks goes for you, too.

 

 

I don't feel any need to block you since I'm an adult and am able to handle people thinking differently than I do.  Even when they think really ignorant and offensive things.  You seem to not understand how the whole 'right to express your opinion' thing works.  It's not a one way street.  

 

People who succumb to suicide ideations during the course of severe depression aren't doing so to be selfish.  

 

You are, however, of course, entitled to have your own ill considered opinions on the matter. 

[blazeingstar]

It is selfish to think that your own love of someone should be enough to fix them. That's what you're saying, after all.  Right? That you want to be able to fix someone with your love? 

I've witnessed the fallout from suicide, and it's absolutely devastating, for years and years afterward, for so many people. People who experience depression need professional help, and even that's not a perfect solution. People process grief differently, and I get that. You can offer love, solidarity, and empathy to people who suffer - that's what we're supposed to do. But it's selfish and misguided to believe that your love can fix someone. Does it come from a desire to take on their burden for them? Because I really do understand that. 

 

You can't fix anyone, nor can I, but I really don't give a crud if they choose not to kill themeselves solely for the reason that they know that their actions will cause a ripple affect.

 

I also have been told by someone it is selfish for me to want them to live because of the role they have in my life when they are in pain.  I told them that if my selfishness was keeping them alive then I was ok with that.

[blazeingstar]

You posted this on the debate table! Of course people are going to post their opinions! If you don't like the fact that people respond negatively to your opinions, then toughen up or stop posting.

 

I'm opposed to people being derisive and namecalling towards ME, I'm not changing my point of view, and never will.

 

Those may be facts, but it does not mean that it is absolutely going to happen like you make it out to be.

 

Absolutely going to happen, no.  But it's like driving in a car without a seat belt.  There are quite a few people who have happily lived their lives and never been injured and never worn a seat belt.

 

I don't feel any need to block you since I'm an adult and am able to handle people thinking differently than I do.  Even when they think really ignorant and offensive things.  You seem to not understand how the whole 'right to express your opinion' thing works.  It's not a one way street.  

 

People who succumb to suicide ideations during the course of severe depression aren't doing so to be selfish.  

 

You are, however, of course, entitled to have your own ill considered opinions on the matter. 

 

Stop treating my opinions as if they are lesser than yours, they aren't.

[Basilisa Marie]

You can't fix anyone, nor can I, but I really don't give a crud if they choose not to kill themeselves solely for the reason that they know that their actions will cause a ripple affect.

 

I also have been told by someone it is selfish for me to want them to live because of the role they have in my life when they are in pain.  I told them that if my selfishness was keeping them alive then I was ok with that.

 

 

Your "selfishness" keeping them alive sounds a heck of a lot like "my love can fix you, even if it's just temporary."   It also sounds a whole lot like, "I'll sacrifice my virtue by engaging in the vice of selfishness in order to save you." 

Edited August 13, 2014 by Basilisa Marie

[blazeingstar]

Your "selfishness" keeping them alive sounds a heck of a lot like "my love can fix you, even if it's just temporary."   It also sounds a whole lot like, "I'll sacrifice my virtue by engaging in the vice of selfishness in order to save you." 

 

Nope, didn't say my love can fix anyway.  I'm saying that I don't care if my selfishness is going to cause them pain, so long as it keeps them alive.

[4588686]

 

 

Stop treating my opinions as if they are lesser than yours, they aren't.

 

 

Yes they are.  Sorry.  

[blazeingstar]

Yes they are.  Sorry.  

 

Wow are you going to get into a cat fight about me having an opinion?  Thats just silly.

[Basilisa Marie]

Nope, didn't say my love can fix anyway.  I'm saying that I don't care if my selfishness is going to cause them pain, so long as it keeps them alive.

 

Keeping them alive is the "fix" for the problem of them considering suicide.  You are "fixing" their problem with your "love," even if it causes them pain and even if it causes you harm by being a vice. Ergo you are trying to fix someone with your love, even if it harms you. 

 

That's not healthy. 

Edited August 13, 2014 by Basilisa Marie

[KnightofChrist]

I can see and understand how a person could in anger, shock, or sorrow could feel suicide is a selfish act. But I do not believe that to be true. 

[CountrySteve937]

How about instead praying for his soul and having some respect for the dead. 

 

 

[blazeingstar]

Keeping them alive is the "fix" for the problem of them considering suicide.  You are "fixing" their problem with your "love," even if it causes them pain and even if it causes you harm by being a vice. Ergo you are trying to fix someone with your love, even if it harms you. 

 

That's not healthy. 

 

I don't care.  I was in the situation, said what I did, and won't ever regret it.  That person is alive.

 

I don't think its a "fix" for anything.  I do think that it is my solution.  If I was asked that question/had that statement made to me again, I'd do the exact same thing.

 

As far as my friend who did take her own life, I do think it was a chain reaction and giving in to the long line of actions that were shown to her by her father and godfather, (whom couldn't even remember meeting)  It was certinally a big contribution in the death of her friends.

[4588686]

Wow are you going to get into a cat fight about me having an opinion?  Thats just silly.

 

No.  You're welcome to have an opinion.  And when you try to push that bad opinion in the debate table I'm going to point out why and that it is a bad opinion.  

 

Have a great day!

[Credo in Deum]

http://youtu.be/1fuDDqU6n4o

[blazeingstar]

CCC: Suicide

 

2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of.

 

2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.

 

2282 If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal. Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.

Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

 

2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

 

--------------------------------------------------------

 

While some suicides are performed with selfish motives we cannot say all of them are performed for this reason.  We also cannot say that a person who commits suicide is "brave" or is a person who "made the right decision".    In the end no one here knows the motives for Robin Williams suicide except God and Robin Williams.   What we do know is that God is Just and Merciful and that He understood Robins brokenness and pain better than anyone here.   With that said we should pray for his soul and for the safety and protection of everyone else who is at risk of suicide. 

 

I didn't say anything about Robin William's soul.  I did say that I do hate the articles addressing his action and saying that it is not selfish and moreover that it is brave, or even "right" for him.  It is not any of that for anybody.

 

I find that his sucide is being glorified in a way in which I cannot remember anyone's ever.  I do feel like by applying all those things to it, there will be huge spikes in the numbers in the days and weeks to come.

 

Except those people won't be well know.