Norseman82 Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 I think (And as we know, all of my best posts begin with those two frightening words) this is a very valid point. It seems that we focus so much on abortion and homosexual marriage (and we rightly put much emphasis on it) that sometimes we forget contraception and premarital sex are also mortal sins and will lead someone to hell. We tell our children about estranged Uncle Ted and his gay lover Tom and why the lives they lead are sinful, but we rarely mention Aunt Trista and Uncle Joe and why their use of contraception is morally disordered and mortally sinful. First, some sins are open (like those who engage in cohabitation or invalid marriages, whether they be same-sex unions or civil marriages or remarriage after divorce without an annulment), whereas something like engaging in artificial birth control may not be open unless you see a condom in cousin Joe's wallet or a birth control pack in cousin Ludmilla's purse when they open it up to pay you $20 for a parish raffle ticket. Second, just because we cannot engage in all battles simultaneously does not mean that we cannot engage in any battles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragon Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 First, some sins are open (like those who engage in cohabitation or invalid marriages, whether they be same-sex unions or civil marriages or remarriage after divorce without an annulment), whereas something like engaging in artificial birth control may not be open unless you see a condom in cousin Joe's wallet or a birth control pack in cousin Ludmilla's purse when they open it up to pay you $20 for a parish raffle ticket. Second, just because we cannot engage in all battles simultaneously does not mean that we cannot engage in any battles. Our interactions with friends, relatives, and colleagues who aren't living by the teachings of the Church aren't "battles" and if that's the attitude you're approaching them with then that's a large part of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappo Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 I'd just like to add that there can be a major difference between how you would treat a family member when you first learn of it (my reaction was i want nothing to do with you) and how you treat them after learning to cope with it. In my particular instance it was my mother and it had immediate adverse effects on my family (divorce). It really depends on the circumstances and nature of the relationship. If my wife told me she was gay and left me for another woman, I don't know that I'd have it in be to be civil towards her right away. Maybe after some time, but not right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo in Deum Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I would follow the advice of Sheen. "Tolerance is an attitude of reasoned patience toward evil … a forbearance that restrains us from showing anger or inflicting punishment. Tolerance applies only to persons … never to truth. Tolerance applies to the erring, intolerance to the error … Architects are as intolerant about sand as foundations for skyscrapers as doctors are intolerant about germs in the laboratory. Tolerance does not apply to truth or principles. About these things we must be intolerant, and for this kind of intolerance, so much needed to rouse us from sentimental gush, I make a plea. Intolerance of this kind is the foundation of all stability."-- Ven. Fulton J. Sheen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherie Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Families are tougher, especially when you're trying to raise children in the faith. I don't think there's a hard and fast answer to how you'd address it in that situation, because each family is different. Do we treat heterosexuals who are having unmarried sex differently? Or couples who contracept? It's not the same, but it's a relevant question. I agree; I'd even say that in many ways, it IS virtually the same thing. I've been struggling with this in my own family; not with openly gay people, but with cohabiting couples in general. EVERY one of my siblings, and even my parents, are cohabiting. How do I respond to it?! They know I disagree with the way they live their lives, but what about my kids and the influence they'd leave on my children? They're too young now, but soon they won't be. Should I pretend nothing's wrong and hope my kids don't notice (they will)? Shun all my family members until they repent (doesn't seem very charitable)? Talk to my kids in age-appropriate language before we visit family? What would I say? Would that make it worse? I want to be kind and charitable to my family members, especially since that would be the better way to encourage them to come back to Christ anyway, but influences are powerful and insidious, and I don't want our kids getting mixed messages..."Mom says cohabiting is wrong, but grandma does it and we still see them like nothing's wrong!" It's a delicate balance and I don't have the answers. I wish I did. I just want to do what's right! Anyway, all that to say, for the issue of fornicating/cohabiting family members (gay or not!) and other similar issues, I just don't know. If you have a good answer, tell me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 My husband flunked out of his first year of college after his girlfriend came out as a lesbian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I would follow the advice of Sheen. "Tolerance is an attitude of reasoned patience toward evil … a forbearance that restrains us from showing anger or inflicting punishment. Tolerance applies only to persons … never to truth. Tolerance applies to the erring, intolerance to the error … Architects are as intolerant about sand as foundations for skyscrapers as doctors are intolerant about germs in the laboratory. Tolerance does not apply to truth or principles. About these things we must be intolerant, and for this kind of intolerance, so much needed to rouse us from sentimental gush, I make a plea. Intolerance of this kind is the foundation of all stability."-- Ven. Fulton J. Sheen Dang. That is a really fabulous quote! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I agree; I'd even say that in many ways, it IS virtually the same thing. I've been struggling with this in my own family; not with openly gay people, but with cohabiting couples in general. EVERY one of my siblings, and even my parents, are cohabiting. How do I respond to it?! They know I disagree with the way they live their lives, but what about my kids and the influence they'd leave on my children? They're too young now, but soon they won't be. Should I pretend nothing's wrong and hope my kids don't notice (they will)? Shun all my family members until they repent (doesn't seem very charitable)? Talk to my kids in age-appropriate language before we visit family? What would I say? Would that make it worse? I want to be kind and charitable to my family members, especially since that would be the better way to encourage them to come back to Christ anyway, but influences are powerful and insidious, and I don't want our kids getting mixed messages..."Mom says cohabiting is wrong, but grandma does it and we still see them like nothing's wrong!" It's a delicate balance and I don't have the answers. I wish I did. I just want to do what's right! Anyway, all that to say, for the issue of fornicating/cohabiting family members (gay or not!) and other similar issues, I just don't know. If you have a good answer, tell me. I don't have kids, but it sounds to me like you're doing a great job just struggling with the issue. I think that kids who hear their parents express their beliefs, and also watch them struggle to live them out, probably get a better education in the genuine difficulties—and rewards—of living our Faith in the real world. That being said, if I were a parent, I think I'd just try to explain to them that (1) we are all sinners, and (2) we do not approve of one another's sins, and (3) we love each other in spite of our sins. So we go to grandma's because we love her, but we do not approve of her cohabitation any more than God approves of our gossip/hitting our sister/talking back to our parents/missing Mass/etc. And then I'd leave the outcome—i.e., the kids' future faithfulness—to God. Cuz really, what will worrying bring? (<< Said like a true non-parent, I know! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragon Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) I think with kids it's a good opportunity to explain our beliefs and how some people believe differently, but it's important that we stay true to our values. Kids are going to meet people in these kinds of relationships eventually so it's important they know how to have healthy relationships with people who are different to them without compromising their Faith. I guess it's a fine balance to achieve though. If you're too lax then they might not be able to separate the sinner from the sin and think that if grandparents/uncles/friends do it and they're good people then it must be okay; however on the other hand I know plenty of people who were raised in ultra-conservative Catholic environments and didn't know many other people. A lot of those kids turned 18, moved out to university and fell away from the Faith quickly because they were never used to being different from those around them. Edited October 13, 2014 by Aragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 It's tough when there's kids involved. One of my cousins is "married" to her girlfriend so it's weird for me when her little sister talks to me about it. I don't want to sound like I hate/don't like her sister or her girlfriend (because I truly don't) but I also don't want to act like it's this wonderful thing. To be fair their home environment was all sorts of messed up, especially for the youngest one. I probably don't have the mental dexterity to respond to it properly, but I do my best. To me dealing with cohabitating couples is more pervasive and more of a problem. I mean you just look anachronistic if you're against that. I guess I'm lucky in that just about no one ever asks me for advice or listens to my opinion on these things. I'm just looked at as either a semi-bigot or just someone with peculiar, irrelevant beliefs that can be easily ignored. yay me? :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Pro-family Catholics reject Synod mid-way report, calling it ‘a betrayal’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Pro-family Catholics reject Synod mid-way report, calling it ‘a betrayal’ Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Rorate Caeli - Letter from a Reader in East Africa: "My Bishop Wept When He Read the Synod Summary" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) Nope. I'm not sure, but I hope the Synod in the end will make the right choice between Kasperism or Catholicism. Edited October 13, 2014 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I really dont even know why there is a poll essentially saying "Would you treat a homosexual person as a person or not?" Answer is Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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