crusader1234 Posted June 14, 2004 Posted June 14, 2004 I'm a teenager, and I'm not quite sure what you mean by Charismatic Renewal, but I do think that some of the stuff is getting tacky. If you mean the introduction of the new types of singing and even dancing in some cases, then count me out... I'd rather go to a concert. If you mean Charismatic Renewal as in getting people to be more into their faith, sure. If you mean turning Church into some sort of party? I'd rather burn my Bob Dylan records.
voiciblanche Posted June 14, 2004 Posted June 14, 2004 [quote name='crusader1234' date='Jun 14 2004, 02:44 AM'] If you mean turning Church into some sort of party? I'd rather burn my Bob Dylan records. [/quote] I love that, Rich.
qfnol31 Posted June 14, 2004 Posted June 14, 2004 I'm gonna quote different people throughout this and post my thoughts and opinions: [quote name='shinobininjasp' date='Jun 12 2004, 06:24 AM']As someone who is converting to Catholicism from a charismatic Methodist church, I love the charismatic movement. For me, it makes it a little easier for me to relate, and I love the charismatic Catholic Church I attend now, even though, by my old church's standards, it's far from being ultra charismatic. It seems this church has compromised, giving the parisheners some charismatic elements and some traditional elements, and I think it works.[/quote] I read somewhere that the Novus Ordo Mass was supposed to help with the differences between the Protestants and Catholics...I personally am not a fan of the Charismatic Renewal being the deciding factor for conversion. A person who comes to the Catholic Church accepts all that She (Holy Mother Church) holds to be true. Granted the Holy Spirit is what helps draw these souls in, but I don't think that the Church should give in to all wants of the members...if that were so, we'd eventually have gay marriages and women priests... [quote name='M.SIGGA' date='Jun 12 2004, 05:43 PM']It strengthens love for the Eucharist which is the coolest I think and i think this is a really big reason there is such a surge right now of so many new young folks comming into the Church even though there is so much bad press in the U.S. at least where I live. Sometimes I think there are more Protestants sitting in the back of Catholic Churches than Catholic people lol - but I know the CCR isn't the only reason of course.[/quote] I agree with some of this, but I see it become distracting equally as often. I've been to places where during Adoration people do different things that are very distracting. Though I won't elaborate very much, I personally feel it took away from Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. My church isn't Charismatic at all and we have one of the largest parishes in the area with hundreds of youth who are active in many ways. Of course the Holy Spirit was behind this! Though I don't think it took the movement for that to happen... [quote name='Bruce S' date='Jun 12 2004, 10:39 PM']Eucharistic Adoration isn't what BUILT Christianity, and won't rebuild it either[/quote] I dunno, the Catholic Church is larger than any other religion, and it's about the only Church that practices Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament. One last comment real fast, or actually more of a question. Is it possible that the Charismatic Movement takes away focus from where the Holy Spirit is already present to us?
P3chrmd Posted June 14, 2004 Posted June 14, 2004 I never knew how many people were torn between this issue My opinion...The Holy Fathers approval is the only one I need! All other opinions don't really matter..... I'm not talking about you guys...but in general...for any subject...if the Holy Father gives on ok...thats all I need! God Bless!
Archaeology cat Posted June 14, 2004 Posted June 14, 2004 [quote name='qfnol31' date='Jun 14 2004, 03:36 AM'] I read somewhere that the Novus Ordo Mass was supposed to help with the differences between the Protestants and Catholics...I personally am not a fan of the Charismatic Renewal being the deciding factor for conversion. A person who comes to the Catholic Church accepts all that She (Holy Mother Church) holds to be true. Granted the Holy Spirit is what helps draw these souls in, but I don't think that the Church should give in to all wants of the members...if that were so, we'd eventually have gay marriages and women priests... [/quote] I hope no one thought I was saying I only decided to become Catholic because they have a charismatic movement and that's what I'm used to. I would join the Catholic Church regardless, because I love it, it just makes the transition a little easier for me this way.
p0lar_bear Posted June 14, 2004 Posted June 14, 2004 I find the fact that I am being accused me of misquoting the Holy Father very offensive. Offer proof or stop accusing me. Yianni, I never said these quotes were specifically regarding the gift of tongues. I quoted them to demonstrate the Holy Father's support of the charismatic renewal. The gift of tongues (and prayer tongues) are considered to be normal parts of the charismatic renewal. qfnol31, In 1979, Pope John Paul II told charismatic leaders meeting in Rome, “I am convinced that this movement is a sign of the Spirit’s action …. a very important component in the total renewal of the Church.” Oh, and when the Holy Father refers to "charisms" or "extraordinary charism" or "extraordinary gifts," he is referring to what is also called the "charismatic gifts." Many people have obviously had some bad person experiences with the movement, and I can appreciate that. I have seen very messed up groups calling themselves charismatic. That is why two of my three original posts were about discernment. I purposely included statements about how authentic forms of the renewal take place fully within the context of the Church. I have seen the renewal lead people to more frequent Eucharistic Adoration, to take advantage of regular Confession, to attend daily Mass, tp read the Bible more, and develop a deeper prayer life. If a charismatic group refuses to submitt itself to the authority of the bishop or claims the inspiriation of the Holy Spirit in defying the Church, that group is not in line with the Holy Spirit.
Apotheoun Posted June 14, 2004 Posted June 14, 2004 Although I still don't accept the distinction that some people are making between [i]speaking in tongues[/i] and [i]praying in tongues[/i], I will forego any further discussion of this topic. I have no desire to offend anyone, and I think that this thread has become too divisive, so I will refrain from posting any further comments in it. I'd like to thank everyone for the information that they supplied. God bless.
Jake Huether Posted June 14, 2004 Posted June 14, 2004 Charisms are gifts. And the Charismatic movement began in order to get people to realize that the Spirit is in the Church and has gifts to give. It is a movement for those people who need to be taught about how to recieve these gifts, although many here at the Phorum already have them and use them. As with all things there are abuses. But the Charismatic movement, at it's root, is only a movement to get us back to where the Apostles began. Within the context of Catholic Teaching, this is a great thing.
P3chrmd Posted June 15, 2004 Posted June 15, 2004 I quote the 2004 Catholic Almanac and its entry on the Charismatic Renewal: [quote]A movement which originated with a handful of Duquesne University students and faculty members in the 1966 67 academic year and spread from there to Notre Dame, Michigan State University, the University of Michigan, other campuses and cities throughout the U.S., and to well over 125 other countries. Scriptural keys to the renewal are: Christ’s promise to send the Holy Spirit upon the Apostles; the description, in the Acts of the Apostles, of the effects of the coming of the Holy Spirit upon the Apostles on Pentecost; St. Paul’s explanation, in the Letter to the Romans and 1 Corinthians, of the charismatic gifts (for the good of the Church and persons) the Holy Spirit would bestow on Christians; New Testament evidence concerning the effects of charismatic gifts in and through the early Church. The personal key to the renewal is baptism in the Holy Spirit. This is not a new sacrament but the personally experienced actualization of grace already sacramentally received, principally in baptism and confirmation. The experience of baptism in the Holy Spirit is often accompanied by the reception of one or more charismatic gifts. A characteristic form of the renewal is the weekly prayer meeting, a gathering that includes periods of spontaneous prayer, singing, sharing of experience and testimony, fellowship and teaching[/quote] Nothing in that statement says...the charismatic movement in the catholic church is evil or wrong!!
p0lar_bear Posted June 15, 2004 Posted June 15, 2004 Umm...I support the charismatic renewal, and I think the Catholic Almanac is a useful resource, but I wouldn't quote it as the final authority on the matter...
P3chrmd Posted June 15, 2004 Posted June 15, 2004 yea i guess your right...but I was runnin out of resources here...LOL
qfnol31 Posted June 16, 2004 Posted June 16, 2004 [quote name='Jake Huether' date='Jun 14 2004, 09:49 AM'] Charisms are gifts. And the Charismatic movement began in order to get people to realize that the Spirit is in the Church and has gifts to give. It is a movement for those people who need to be taught about how to recieve these gifts, although many here at the Phorum already have them and use them. As with all things there are abuses. But the Charismatic movement, at it's root, is only a movement to get us back to where the Apostles began. Within the context of Catholic Teaching, this is a great thing. [/quote] If I may, how do you feel about the movement as it is today?
yiannii Posted June 16, 2004 Posted June 16, 2004 (edited) [quote]Yianni, I never said these quotes were specifically regarding the gift of tongues. I quoted them to demonstrate the Holy Father's support of the charismatic renewal. The gift of tongues (and prayer tongues) are considered to be normal parts of the charismatic renewal.[/quote] Sorry if I offended you p0lar_bear. From the quotes I read that you provided, I didn't agree that the Holy Father was referring to the Charasmatic renewal, rather the gifts of ther Holy Spirit which are defined as: [b]Wisdom[/b] - to dwell with pleasure on the beauty and Majesty Infinity of God. [b]Understanding[/b] - to grasp and hold in our mind all the great truths presented to us by the Catholic Church. [b]Counsel[/b] - to show good sense by keeping away from bad company, dangerous occasions and everything that might put our spiritual life at risk. [b]Fortitude[/b] - to be true to our Faith and to profess it boldly. [b]Knowledge[/b] - to see the hand of God in the happenings of the world and to see His likeness in all created things. [b]Piety/Godleness[/b] - to serve God with joy, to say our prayers, to receive the Sacraments, to join with devotion in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, to look on God as our Father, and on all people as our bothers and sisters. [b]Fear of the Lord[/b] - to think about the great disaster of loosing God's love, and of being seperated from Him for all eternity. Edited June 16, 2004 by yiannii
Jake Huether Posted June 21, 2004 Posted June 21, 2004 [quote name='qfnol31' date='Jun 15 2004, 11:05 PM'] If I may, how do you feel about the movement as it is today? [/quote] I think the renewal is wonderful. Of course, I'm in one circle. My parents, who are involved in the renewal, only associate with orthodox Catholics who respect the Teachings of the Church in their fullness. So, I don't really have any connection to any "groups" that may be on the fringe (so to speak). Like I said, there most certainly are abuses, even today. But the renewal is a benefit to anyone who would use it in accordance and in conjunction with the Teachings of the Church.
p0lar_bear Posted June 21, 2004 Posted June 21, 2004 How did this thread get resurrected without any new posts?
qfnol31 Posted June 21, 2004 Posted June 21, 2004 [quote name='p0lar_bear' date='Jun 21 2004, 01:39 PM'] How did this thread get resurrected without any new posts? [/quote] Jake's reply to my question.
p0lar_bear Posted June 21, 2004 Posted June 21, 2004 His post didn't show up when I first looked at this...I even went back to the table and came back....
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now