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Sisters of Bethlehem


SNJM

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Has anybody heard that the Nuns are having a Papal Visitation? I might have that wording wrong. If anybody knows, would you let me know - either through the phorum or by PM?

Thanks!!

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das - The term "visitation," in the language of the Church hierarchy, doesn't always mean a spending time together for a cozy chat. Sometimes it means an "investigation" - we'll come to your place and talk, so you can explain your charism, your way of life, your practices, etc.

I'm not sure which meaning SNJM intends here, but I'd like to see how this topic develops.

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das - The term "visitation," in the language of the Church hierarchy, doesn't always mean a spending time together for a cozy chat. Sometimes it means an "investigation" - we'll come to your place and talk, so you can explain your charism, your way of life, your practices, etc.

I'm not sure which meaning SNJM intends here, but I'd like to see how this topic develops.

​So sorry, I assumed (LOL) she meant if the Pope was going to meet with them while in NY - but I can see what you mean.as I re-read her post Now I am curious as I thought the US investigation was discharged..

TY for your clarification.

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TheresaThoma

From the news article in La Croix the Sisters themselves in France have requested the canonical visitation. A priest and a Benedictine Sister, who is also an Abbess are undertaking the visitation. From my understanding this was triggered by some testimony of former members that was posted on the internet. The testimonies indicate serious issues within the community the Conférence des évêques de France (CEF) (French version of USCCB) says they are taking these testimonies and issues very seriously. In the article some of the issues mentioned are with the amount of time a Sister could meet with a confessor (less than a  minute), the number of Sisters needing to be on anti-depressants and the amount of control the superior(s) have among other things.

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petitpèlerin

I've wondered why they don't have live homilies. I seem to remember from my visits that they sometimes read a homily of a holy pope or a Church father from the past but the priest who celebrates mass doesn't give a homily, which made me sad because I love a good homily from the priest standing in front of me at that place and time. I was recently reading in canon law that at least Sunday and holy day masses should have homilies, and the reason the Church gives is the same reason why I like them. So I've wondered if the community is aware of the mind of the Church on this matter. (If I'm mistaken on any of my facts here I'm open to correction.)

Edited by petitpèlerin
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I've wondered why they don't have live homilies. I seem to remember from my visits that they sometimes read a homily of a holy pope or a Church father from the past but the priest who celebrates mass doesn't give a homily, which made me sad because I love a good homily from the priest standing in front of me at that place and time. I was recently reading in canon law that at least Sunday and holy day masses should have homilies, and the reason the Church gives is the same reason why I like them. So I've wondered if the community is aware of the mind of the Church on this matter. (If I'm mistaken on any of my facts here I'm open to correction.)

​They are aware of the mind of the Church on this matter. Their practice of not having homilies during Mass is straight out of the Carthusian tradition. Carthusians never have a homily during Mass. Sometimes they'll have a priest give a talk right after Mass, but never during.

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petitpèlerin

​They are aware of the mind of the Church on this matter. Their practice of not having homilies during Mass is straight out of the Carthusian tradition. Carthusians never have a homily during Mass. Sometimes they'll have a priest give a talk right after Mass, but never during.

​Thanks. Makes a lot of sense, and I've been wondering about that for a long time.

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This might be an Eastern Rite thing - does anybody know? I know the Carthusians (and I guess the Nuns as well) have retained many of the Eastern Rite customs. My own SD was a former Carthusian & he once told me that I would not recognize their Mass from the Mass I DO know. I've always thought of that as very interesting & of course made me want to visit, which of course is impossible!

Edited by SNJM
typo
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truthfinder

This might be an Eastern Rite thing - does anybody know? I know the Carthusians (and I guess the Nuns as well) have retained many of the Eastern Rite customs. My own SD was a former Carthusian & he once told me that I would not recognize their Mass from the Mass I DO know. I've always thought of that as very interesting & of course made me want to visit, which of course is impossible!

​No, the Carthusians are not Eastern Rite.  They do have their own ritual Mass as one of the few existing Latin Religious order rites (others include Dominican, and up until Vatican II, Carmelite).  The Carthusian Rite, while still remaining, also was radically changed after the Council (although I believe later). 

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True: If you saw the Carthusian Rite today, you'd recognize it. It looks almost exactly like the Novus Ordo.

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petitpèlerin

I just talked to my SD. They do indeed incorporate some aspects of the Eastern Rite Church. 

​Yes. That's true. My understanding is that their mass is Latin Rite and their office is Eastern Rite, or something like that. Tons of incense, too, at least the weekend I was visiting, which I think included a feast day.

Also, their website is now available in English. It doesn't show up in web searches unless you search in french ("soeurs de bethleem") but it's available in English (and Spanish and German and Dutch):

http://english.bethleem.org/index.php

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Their Mass is Roman Rite and their Office is Byzantine Rite. They do use incense every day.

Personally, I don't think this mix works at all. Their office is this hauntingly beautiful thing, and then you go to their Mass and it's... anticlimactic. Which is totally not what Mass should be.

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