SNJM Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Has anybody heard that the Nuns are having a Papal Visitation? I might have that wording wrong. If anybody knows, would you let me know - either through the phorum or by PM? Thanks!!
das8949 Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Has anybody heard that the Nuns are having a Papal Visitation? I might have that wording wrong. If anybody knows, would you let me know - either through the phorum or by PM? Thanks!! This is the Tenative schedule of Pope Francis http://www.popefrancisvisit.com/tentative-schedule-of-pope-francis-u-s-visit-2015/
Luigi Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 das - The term "visitation," in the language of the Church hierarchy, doesn't always mean a spending time together for a cozy chat. Sometimes it means an "investigation" - we'll come to your place and talk, so you can explain your charism, your way of life, your practices, etc. I'm not sure which meaning SNJM intends here, but I'd like to see how this topic develops.
das8949 Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 das - The term "visitation," in the language of the Church hierarchy, doesn't always mean a spending time together for a cozy chat. Sometimes it means an "investigation" - we'll come to your place and talk, so you can explain your charism, your way of life, your practices, etc. I'm not sure which meaning SNJM intends here, but I'd like to see how this topic develops. So sorry, I assumed (LOL) she meant if the Pope was going to meet with them while in NY - but I can see what you mean.as I re-read her post Now I am curious as I thought the US investigation was discharged.. TY for your clarification.
reminiscere Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=25188 http://www.la-croix.com/Religion/Actualite/Les-saeurs-de-Bethleem-sous-le-coup-d-une-visite-canonique-2015-06-08-1321051
TheresaThoma Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 From the news article in La Croix the Sisters themselves in France have requested the canonical visitation. A priest and a Benedictine Sister, who is also an Abbess are undertaking the visitation. From my understanding this was triggered by some testimony of former members that was posted on the internet. The testimonies indicate serious issues within the community the Conférence des évêques de France (CEF) (French version of USCCB) says they are taking these testimonies and issues very seriously. In the article some of the issues mentioned are with the amount of time a Sister could meet with a confessor (less than a minute), the number of Sisters needing to be on anti-depressants and the amount of control the superior(s) have among other things.
petitpèlerin Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) I've wondered why they don't have live homilies. I seem to remember from my visits that they sometimes read a homily of a holy pope or a Church father from the past but the priest who celebrates mass doesn't give a homily, which made me sad because I love a good homily from the priest standing in front of me at that place and time. I was recently reading in canon law that at least Sunday and holy day masses should have homilies, and the reason the Church gives is the same reason why I like them. So I've wondered if the community is aware of the mind of the Church on this matter. (If I'm mistaken on any of my facts here I'm open to correction.) Edited June 15, 2015 by petitpèlerin
Gabriela Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 I've wondered why they don't have live homilies. I seem to remember from my visits that they sometimes read a homily of a holy pope or a Church father from the past but the priest who celebrates mass doesn't give a homily, which made me sad because I love a good homily from the priest standing in front of me at that place and time. I was recently reading in canon law that at least Sunday and holy day masses should have homilies, and the reason the Church gives is the same reason why I like them. So I've wondered if the community is aware of the mind of the Church on this matter. (If I'm mistaken on any of my facts here I'm open to correction.) They are aware of the mind of the Church on this matter. Their practice of not having homilies during Mass is straight out of the Carthusian tradition. Carthusians never have a homily during Mass. Sometimes they'll have a priest give a talk right after Mass, but never during.
petitpèlerin Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 They are aware of the mind of the Church on this matter. Their practice of not having homilies during Mass is straight out of the Carthusian tradition. Carthusians never have a homily during Mass. Sometimes they'll have a priest give a talk right after Mass, but never during. Thanks. Makes a lot of sense, and I've been wondering about that for a long time.
SNJM Posted June 17, 2015 Author Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) This might be an Eastern Rite thing - does anybody know? I know the Carthusians (and I guess the Nuns as well) have retained many of the Eastern Rite customs. My own SD was a former Carthusian & he once told me that I would not recognize their Mass from the Mass I DO know. I've always thought of that as very interesting & of course made me want to visit, which of course is impossible! Edited June 17, 2015 by SNJM typo
truthfinder Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 This might be an Eastern Rite thing - does anybody know? I know the Carthusians (and I guess the Nuns as well) have retained many of the Eastern Rite customs. My own SD was a former Carthusian & he once told me that I would not recognize their Mass from the Mass I DO know. I've always thought of that as very interesting & of course made me want to visit, which of course is impossible! No, the Carthusians are not Eastern Rite. They do have their own ritual Mass as one of the few existing Latin Religious order rites (others include Dominican, and up until Vatican II, Carmelite). The Carthusian Rite, while still remaining, also was radically changed after the Council (although I believe later).
Gabriela Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 True: If you saw the Carthusian Rite today, you'd recognize it. It looks almost exactly like the Novus Ordo.
SNJM Posted June 18, 2015 Author Posted June 18, 2015 I just talked to my SD. They do indeed incorporate some aspects of the Eastern Rite Church.
petitpèlerin Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 I just talked to my SD. They do indeed incorporate some aspects of the Eastern Rite Church. Yes. That's true. My understanding is that their mass is Latin Rite and their office is Eastern Rite, or something like that. Tons of incense, too, at least the weekend I was visiting, which I think included a feast day. Also, their website is now available in English. It doesn't show up in web searches unless you search in french ("soeurs de bethleem") but it's available in English (and Spanish and German and Dutch): http://english.bethleem.org/index.php
Gabriela Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 Their Mass is Roman Rite and their Office is Byzantine Rite. They do use incense every day. Personally, I don't think this mix works at all. Their office is this hauntingly beautiful thing, and then you go to their Mass and it's... anticlimactic. Which is totally not what Mass should be.
Gabriela Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 Okay, the PM system hasn't worked for weeks, so SNJM: If you're discerning with the Sisters of Bethlehem, I would urge strong caution. I discerned with them for over a year and they were extremely non-transparent with me, as I understand they are with all their discerners. If you'd like to talk further, we can figure out a way to exchange contact info outside the PM system. I'd be happy to tell you more by Skype/phone.
genesisweavers Posted June 21, 2015 Posted June 21, 2015 Dear Friends - I strongly and respectfully disagree with all the Gabriela is saying about Bethlehem. I have lived at the Monastery for four years and they are the best people I ever met. They are the most prayerful and they all have amazing souls. It's no wonder this congregation can claim (and the only one who does) the Virgin Mary is their foundress. It's a grace for me to be with them. your brother - john
Nunsuch Posted June 21, 2015 Posted June 21, 2015 Genesis, I don't know anything about this community, and am certainly not in a position to "take sides." However, it should be noted that MANY congregations claim Mary as their foundress. I'm happy for this community's devotion, but they are hardly alone or unique in that regard.
Yaatee Posted June 21, 2015 Posted June 21, 2015 Dear Friends - I strongly and respectfully disagree with all the Gabriela is saying about Bethlehem. I have lived at the Monastery for four years and they are the best people I ever met. They are the most prayerful and they all have amazing souls. It's no wonder this congregation can claim (and the only one who does) the Virgin Mary is their foundress. It's a grace for me to be with them. your brother - john John, I am interested in how you came to live at the monastery. Did you work there? Were you a claustral oblate (an oblate who lives on the property, works there, follows the horariam but can't vote (for obvious reasons, as he hasn't taken vows). The claustral oblate is an old monastic practice, mainly in the Benedictines, I think, but is coming back, especially among cloistered branches.
genesisweavers Posted June 21, 2015 Posted June 21, 2015 Nunsuch - I know the Monastic Family of Bethlehem is not unique in their devotion to Mary. However, they are the only congregation on the books who list Mary as their Foundress. Mary is also considered to be the Prioress of all of their monasteries. Yaatee - I have been going to Bethlehem for about 15 years now. It started with day visits and retreats. When I retired four years ago the Prioress asked me if I would like to move to the Monastery. The day after I retired - I was there. The nearest thing that Bethlehem has to Oblates is lay associates. I am one. We make public promises and live by a rule. I do attend all of the liturgies and my main job is cooking for the guests. But I also do a lot of other things for the community. I live in a log hermitage. Whatever I give them I receive back a hundredfold just praying with them and knowing them. I have said this before in this Phorum - they are the best people I ever met - every one of them. What a blessing. your brother john
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