Sisters of Bethlehem

[beatitude]

Dear Friends - I strongly and respectfully disagree with all the Gabriela is saying about Bethlehem.  I have lived at the Monastery for four years and they are the best people I ever met.  They are the most prayerful and they all have amazing souls.  It's no wonder this congregation can claim (and the only one who does) the Virgin Mary is their foundress.  It's a grace for me to be with them.

your brother - john

​John,

The Sisters of Bethlehem are having a papal visitation. This suggests, and very strongly, that Rome is concerned about some of the happenings in the community.

This doesn't mean that the sisters aren't lovely people. Gabriela hasn't said that they aren't. She has said that as a woman who was seriously discerning with the community, there was not the transparency that she would expect. You are a male oblate, not a candidate for entry with the sisters, and this alone is likely to make your experience different.

Making superlative claims about a community (i.e. "They are the only ones founded by Mary!") in response to a discerner's very tactfully worded concerns is not a reassurance. The Church was founded by Jesus himself, and that doesn't mean we haven't had bad issues over the years. It's wonderful that you have found your home at Bethlehem, but discerners do have a right to voice legitimate concerns, especially when their uneasiness is apparently shared in the Vatican.

[genesisweavers]

Thank you Beatitude for being the 'voice of reason' here.  My deep love and affection for these Sisters has blocked out my desire to be open, fair and clear.  It also has activated a strong 'protection' tendency that I have toward them.  And actually I firmly believe that the Sisters and Brothers themselves hope to be transparent in the Church's deeper look at them.  My sincere apologies to anyone who has been offended by my comments.  May you be blessed ...

your brother - john

[josephine]

I have had the privilige of meeting these sisters and staying with them for a couple of days.

They are very lovely, there life seems very beautiful and when they sing they sound like angels.

That doesn't change the fact that they, or one of their many houses, might have issues. (in leadership, formation, balance, whatever)

So, to anyone who discerns with this community: write, visit, see for your self. Enjoy there artwork and beautiful chanting.

But be aware that there might be issues. Know what to watch out for (see "15 signs of problems in new communities post").

I just hope and pray that the papal visit will bring any issue to the surface and that if there are issues, they will be solved.

 

 

[SNJM]

Thanks for the advice and comments to everybody. I firmly believe that all communities, just like people, have a "shadow side." This can present itself in different ways to different people, what may be a "deal-breaker" for me might not bother another. Interacting with others, living under Obedience, and so much more, is something that must be experienced and given time to be integrated into one's physical, spiritual and emotional life. In short, sharing stories and experiences is good, but we must always remember that everyone's experience is based on their own individual experience and history. I have been an SD far too long to ever suggest that one stops asking questions or gathering information, but remember living the life with the community (especially cloistered) is very, very different than parlor visits or reading books. I hope this helps tie together some of the conflicting experiences/opinions. 

[mariepaix]

Does anyone know what the results of the papal visit are/were?  Having spent some time with the sisters in different monasteries I found this disturbing.   Everything on the internet seems to be in French....

[Gabriela]

@NadaTeTurbe?

[NadaTeTurbe]

I have no idea, it may be still going on ? A NGO was founded to help the ex-members of the Bethleem Community, that's the most recent news I have. An apostolic visitation is something long, the case of the little sisters of Bethlehem is complicated, I guess that one year is not enough to investigate everything. I have some other informations that I don't think are usefull to share in a public forum, but if you really need more informations, you can PM me. 

[mariepaix]

Ok.  Thanks.  Having spent some years there at several different monasteries I was disheartened to read some of the testimonies of nuns who have left.  

[Gabriela]

4 hours ago, NadaTeTurbe said:

A NGO was founded to help the ex-members of the Bethleem Community

Seriously? Do they have a website?

 

1 hour ago, mariepaix said:

Having spent some years there at several different monasteries I was disheartened to read some of the testimonies of nuns who have left.  

Are these testimonies online? I'd be interested to read them to see if they accord with my experience.

[NadaTeTurbe]

Gabriela, I'll PM you. 

[mariepaix]

4 minutes ago, Gabriela said:

Seriously? Do they have a website?

 

Are these testimonies online? I'd be interested to read them to see if they accord with my experience.

Yes.  Here it is http://www.lenversdudecor.org/-Soeur-Marie-.html.  

What is NGO?  Is there a link for it?

[Feankie]

An NGO here in the States is a non-governmental organization

[Gabriela]

18 minutes ago, mariepaix said:

Yes.  Here it is http://www.lenversdudecor.org/-Soeur-Marie-.html.  

What is NGO?  Is there a link for it?

"NGO" is "non-governmental organization", basically a non-profit organization. I'll let @NadaTeTurbeshare that link if she wishes.

[graciandelamadrededios]

42 minutes ago, mariepaix said:

Yes.  Here it is http://www.lenversdudecor.org/-Soeur-Marie-.html.  

What is NGO?  Is there a link for it?

Thanks for the link but its in French...and unfortunately, my french is very, very limited.

Edited August 31, 2016 by graciandelamadrededios

[mariepaix]

Yes.  Everything I find about them is in French.  

[AveMariaPurissima]

On 8/31/2016 at 6:18 PM, graciandelamadrededios said:

Thanks for the link but its in French...and unfortunately, my french is very, very limited.

My French is basically nonexistent, but I was able to read some of the testimonies by right-clicking and choosing "Translate to English."  It was a little choppy but understandable enough.  And there's always Google Translate too.

[mariepaix]

And at that link is also the dossier that Fabio Barbero(Former monk and Prioress) brought to the Vatican as well at the response from Bethlehem by Brother Silouan.

This blog  also has some information http://cite-catholique.org/viewtopic.php?f=130&t=31505 .  One former nun 'AncienBethleem' posts quite a bit and gives interesting incites into the development and practices of Bethlehem.  

I think that any information about them on the internet will be in French.  

[katherineH]

I am a native French speaker so I browsed through the site and was able to glean the main points for anyone who is interested. The document is over 100 pages long and is a collection of various personal testimonies of former members of the community.  Here is a summary of the first one and its points are echoed throughout the document

• Personality cult around Sr. Marie
• Belief that there is no real salvation outside of the community (i.e. sense of spiritual superiority above lay people and even other communities)
• No right to consistent spiritual direction by the same priest.
• Excessive limitations on what spiritual readings sisters had access to (everything had to come from their founder or the priest).
• Lack of transparency with their finances, feeling that they were above the law.
• Excessive policing of family interactions. Only allow to write one letter per trimester to family.  All mail received was read by the superior who decided whether or not you would be allowed to read it.
• No actual formation (no instruction or guidance during the novitiate)
• Increased devotions to messages or appearances not approved by the Church
• Underfed and lack of access to medical care (many sisters stopped having their periods because they were so unhealthy)
• "selective poverty" (certain sisters were granted privileges that were not available to others, especially Sr. Marie who had special meals while the other sisters had to eat basically scraps)
• manipulative and "seductive" vocation practices to recruit new sisters
• No personal space: sisters have to be in 3s at all time to prevent to prevent personal discussions
• No ability to ask questions about anything. All questions are perceived as a defiance towards authority

Interestingly, the website has a section called "droit de reponse" ("right to respond"). They've published a letter by one of the community's priests who tries to address the concerns by former members. The response accuses the "whistleblowers" of being unreliable, themselves indoctrinated, and responsible for many of the problems of which they accuse the community. The language is quite...intense. "C'est dire si ce texte infamant est mensonger. C'est dire si son auteur occulte sciemment une partie des faits pour porter ses accusations infondées." = "This inflammatory text is a lie. Its author is hiding facts in order to support its unfounded accusations."
 

[Gabriela]

10 hours ago, katherineH said:

I am a native French speaker so I browsed through the site and was able to glean the main points for anyone who is interested. The document is over 100 pages long and is a collection of various personal testimonies of former members of the community.  Here is a summary of the first one and its points are echoed throughout the document

• Personality cult around Sr. Marie
• Belief that there is no real salvation outside of the community (i.e. sense of spiritual superiority above lay people and even other communities)
• No right to consistent spiritual direction by the same priest.
• Excessive limitations on what spiritual readings sisters had access to (everything had to come from their founder or the priest).
• Lack of transparency with their finances, feeling that they were above the law.
• Excessive policing of family interactions. Only allow to write one letter per trimester to family.  All mail received was read by the superior who decided whether or not you would be allowed to read it.
• No actual formation (no instruction or guidance during the novitiate)
• Increased devotions to messages or appearances not approved by the Church
• Underfed and lack of access to medical care (many sisters stopped having their periods because they were so unhealthy)
• "selective poverty" (certain sisters were granted privileges that were not available to others, especially Sr. Marie who had special meals while the other sisters had to eat basically scraps)
• manipulative and "seductive" vocation practices to recruit new sisters
• No personal space: sisters have to be in 3s at all time to prevent to prevent personal discussions
• No ability to ask questions about anything. All questions are perceived as a defiance towards authority

Interestingly, the website has a section called "droit de reponse" ("right to respond"). They've published a letter by one of the community's priests who tries to address the concerns by former members. The response accuses the "whistleblowers" of being unreliable, themselves indoctrinated, and responsible for many of the problems of which they accuse the community. The language is quite...intense. "C'est dire si ce texte infamant est mensonger. C'est dire si son auteur occulte sciemment une partie des faits pour porter ses accusations infondées." = "This inflammatory text is a lie. Its author is hiding facts in order to support its unfounded accusations."
 

[genesisweavers]

One thing that struck me about the translation of Katherine H is out of 100 pages the only things that were shared was a list of 13 very negative and pergorative traits about this Monastic Family.  And in the last paragraph she said - in a statement issued by a priest - that particular priest is the Prior General of the Bethlehem Monks.  The entire thing reminds me of the 'fair' reporting we often see on TV - for instance in the Presential (Circus) election that we have in our faces every day.  

 

I have quite a bit of experience with the Monastic Family of Bethlehem and I can honestly say I have never seen a trace of anything that appears on the list of 13 found in this forum.  I have visited their monasteries in Europe and I lived at the Monastery in NY for five years.  I know the families of many Sisters, the benefactors, the many retreatants who come every year (at least), priests and religious from other congregations and the Sisters themselves.  There is no evidence at all of any type of mitigations of religious decorum or any falsification of who they are.  

 

In the secular world we see so many damaged people who suffer from broken marriages, abuse, overwork and multiple stresses.  It shows up in the behavior even if we don't know the cause of it.  With the Sisters I have never seen any behavioral signs of living in a dysfunctional or pretentious community.  Each Sister radiates kindness, serenity, a maximum of charity, and fidelity to her vocation - yes really! 

 

This morning I read the homily of Abbot Peter McCarthy given at the first profession of vows of Bro Scott - a member of the Abbey of our Lady of Guadalupe.  Fr Abbot addresses his words to the new Brother:  To be blunt you are throwing your lot with a herd of lost sheep! Our only hope - is our belief - in Jesus' own words - that He Himself is the Shepherd of the Lost Shepherd. 

And earlier in the homily Fr Abbot uses the words of Jesus:  For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it.  But whoever loses his life for my sake will find it."  

 

I don't pretend to understand any of this - Some very big questions still remain in own head - like:  Why are the Sisters who for me are the best people I ever met under attack from disappointed drop outs? What is our fascination with these discrutled ones? Why do some go to a Monastery and find peace, harmony, and love and others can't wait to leave.  

 

When Regina Laudis was going through their dark night the Abbess at the time - Mother Benedict said:  If anyone wants to know who we are they should come here and see for themselves.  

 

After all, Jesus Himself was really only understood by a very few - there were others who wanted to kill him - and they did.  

 

May you be blessed 

Your brother 

John McHale