Why Is The Vatican So Accepting Of Islam?

[Budge]

Im going to take everything directly off Vatican website

[url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/1980/may/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_19800507_mussulmani-kenya_en.html"]http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_pau...i-kenya_en.html[/url]

[quote]The Catholic Church realizes that[b] the element of worship given to the one, living, subsistent, merciful and almighty Creator of heaven and earth is common to Islam and herself, and that it is a great link uniting all Christians and Muslims.[/b] With great satisfaction she also notes, among other elements of Islam which are held in common,[b] the honour attributed to Jesus Christ[/b] (:eek  :eek  :eek  --with) and his Virgin Mother. [/b]As the Catholic Church makes every effort to sustain religious dialogue with Islam on the basis of existing bonds, which she endeavours ever more to reflect on, she likewise extends the invitation that her own heritage be fully known, especially to those who are spiritually attached to Abraham[/quote]

ISLAM DOES NOT HONOUR CHRIST!

Jesus in fact is denied directly in the Koran. That means that Islam is an ANTICHRIST religion. The Catholic church in the above is colluding with AntiChrist teachings.

KORAN:Surah 4:157[b] And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger - they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain.[/b]

BIBLE 1 Cor. 15:3 [b]Christ died for our sins[/b]

HERE ARE THE MANY DENIALS OF LORD JESUS CHRIST

KORAN: Surah 4:171 O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth.[b] The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, [u]was only a messenger of Allah[/u], and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him.[/b] So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three" - Cease! (it is) better for you! - Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His Transcendent Majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender.

KORAN:Surah 5:75 [b]The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) had passed away before him. [/b]And his mother was a saintly woman. And they both used to eat (earthly) food. See how We make the revelations clear for them, and see how they are turned away!


KORAN:Surah 6:101 The Originator of the heavens and the earth! [b]How can He have a child, when there is for Him no consort[/b], when He created all things and is Aware of all things ?

KORAN:Surah 3:55 (And remember) when Allah said: O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing thee of those who disbelieve and am setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then unto Me ye will (all) return, and I shall judge between you as to that wherein ye used to differ.

KORAN:Surah 18:4,5 And to warn those who say: [b]Allah hath chosen a son, (A thing) whereof they have no knowledge, nor (had) their fathers, Dreadful is the word that cometh out of their mouths. They speak naught but a lie. [/b]

But look at the acceptance from the Vatican.


[url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/travels/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_22031998_nigeria-muslim_en.html"]http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_pau...-muslim_en.html[/url]

[quote]We have in common so much teaching regarding goodness, truth and virtue that a great understanding between us is possible. And indeed necessary. In the Message that I addressed to the Muslim Community in Kaduna during my first visit to your country in 1982,[b] I said: "I am convinced that if we (Christians and Muslims) join hands in the name of God we can accomplish much good . . [/b]. We can collaborate in the promotion of justice, peace and development. [b]It is my earnest hope that our solidarity of brotherhood, under God[/b], will truly enhance the future of Nigeria and all Africa[/quote]

[url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/2001/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_20010506_omayyadi_en.html"]http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_pau...mayyadi_en.html[/url]

[quote]. As we make our way through life towards our heavenly destiny, Christians feel the company of Mary, the Mother of Jesus; and [b]Islam too pays tribute to Mary and hails her as "chosen above the women of the world" (Quran, III:42). [/b]The Virgin of Nazareth, the Lady of Saydnâya, has taught us that God protects the humble and "scatters the proud in the imagination of their hearts" (Lk 1:51). May the hearts of Christians and Muslims turn to one another with feelings of brotherhood and friendship, so that the Almighty may bless us with the peace which heaven alone can give. To the One, Merciful God be praise and glory for ever. Amen.[/quote]

Then I found this as far as American Leadership of the Catholic church

Found this today.

Unbelieveable...well maybe not...

[url="http://www.nccbuscc.org/seia/borelli.htm"]http://www.nccbuscc.org/seia/borelli.htm[/url]

READ THE KORAN WITH THE USCCB! INTERPRET THE KORAN USING THE BIBLE AND VICE VERSA! You wont believe this!

[quote][b]One particular area of theological study is joint study of the Bible and the Qur’?n. We need to read our scriptures together and, let me suggest, we need to bring our scholars together for sessions of joint exegesis. [u]By interpreting our scriptures together,  [/u] we gain valuable insight not only into the message of the scriptures but how the scriptures themselves have been lived by the generations.  [/b] Common themes will be found, and differences in teachings and beliefs will be noted. We will also learn from one another how we approach the diversity of texts in Scripture and how Scripture relates to that body of literature we call, for want of a better term, Tradition. We can open for one another classical methods of interpretation and commentary on Scripture and modern methods too. The benefits could be enormous, not only for mutual understanding but also for broadening our own views and growing in our respect for the ways that God continues to work among all of us.[/quote]

[url="http://www.harpazo.net/Queen.html"]http://www.harpazo.net/Queen.html[/url]

[dUSt]

Why was Christ so accepting of sinners? Please answer this question and then imply it to yours.

God bless.

[Budge]

There is a difference between accepting sinners and accepting false doctrines and lies that lead to destruction.

I seperate the people from their false religon. They are to be respected.

True love isnt lying to them though, true love is preaching Christ.

[Brother Adam]

Then you completely miss the whole point.

Intention is everything.

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

[quote]We have in common so much teaching regarding goodness, truth and virtue that a great understanding between us is possible. And indeed necessary. In the Message that I addressed to the Muslim Community in Kaduna during my first visit to your country in 1982, I said: "I am convinced that if we (Christians and Muslims) join hands in the name of God we can accomplish much good . . . We can collaborate in the promotion of justice, peace and development. It is my earnest hope that our solidarity of brotherhood, under God, will truly enhance the future of Nigeria and all Africa[/quote]

I guess if we're not supposed to do anything with anyone but Catholics then all Catholics should refuse to support Christian Coalition, refuse to participate in pro-life rallies with Baptists, or defend marriage with Muslims, Jews, and other non-Catholics. It is true that Jews, Muslims, and Christians worship the same God, and thus there is a common bond.

The ecumenical movement is not meant for us to combine the Catholic Church with other churches or religions, but to lead all souls to the fullness of the Catholic faith. Starting from common ground is the first way to win over souls for Jesus.

[Brother Adam]

Kindof of like the Romans Road. Start with where the person is at.

[Aloysius]

recognizing the common elements is the key to begining dialogue that should hopefully lead to conversion to Christ.

doing things for a GOOD that both people agree is a GOOD even if the other does not fully know the truth is working with a sinner for GOOD and possibly teaching them more about the nature of GOOD along the way.

The Koran borrows alot of stuff from the OT. That stuff will be the common theme. There will also be clear differences to be noted. All in all, in a joint study both will learn what the other believes. to know your enemy (the erroneous doctrine) is to begin to understand how to defeat it by understanding what within their belief system is not our enemy, we can focus more on attacking that which is against Christ and supporting that which supports Christ (simply because it was taken from the Old Testament).

PAX

[CanCath]

Muslims have a great devotion to God. I think, though I may be wrong, that because of this strong devotion to the Person that is God the Father, they, sort of by default, honour the Son. So, maybe that's what the Vatican is getting at?

[Budge]

Muslims dont know God and I didnt know God either when dabbling in Theosophy and other nonsense of Unitarian-Universalism.

We have to INTRODUCE God to them. They do not know God. I did not know God. UUs who are not total atheists, do use the word "God" but have no idea who He is.

Telling them "you already know God" can backfire and end up in a very watered down gospel it is also NOT true. When the Pope teaches that all major world religions are to be respected and that they know"God" even in a difficient way==he is teaching out and out Universalism.

I dont see any conversions to Jesus Christ being made as a result of these efforts, instead more and more, it teaches Catholics to look to other religions for knowledge. UUs combine all religions. This is why when I talk about those days I tell people I was into Humanism, Theosophy and Paganism ALL AT ONCE. We had HIndu mantras given in our churches, we had Islamic readings...and so forth and so on. The Catholic church is definitely moving the same way.

[url="http://www.nccbuscc.org/seia/borelli.htm"]http://www.nccbuscc.org/seia/borelli.htm[/url]

This paragraph assumes that God was behind the writing of the Koran. God being all good never could have written something like the Koran. Why would God contradict Himself. The Devil inspired the AntiChrist Koran.

Knowing what I know that the Koran directly denies Jesus Christ three times at least--the below is total antichrist.

[quote]One particular area of theological study is joint study of the Bible and the Qur’?n. We need to read our scriptures together and, let me suggest, we need to bring our scholars together for sessions of joint exegesis.[b] By interpreting our scriptures together, we gain valuable insight not only into the message of the scriptures[/b] but how the scriptures themselves have been lived by the generations. Common themes will be found, and differences in teachings and beliefs will be noted. We will also learn from one another how we approach the diversity of texts in Scripture and how Scripture relates to that body of literature we call, for want of a better term, Tradition. We can open for one another classical methods of interpretation and commentary on Scripture and modern methods too. The benefits could be enormous, not only for mutual understanding but also for broadening our own views and growing in our respect for the ways that God continues to work among all of us.[/quote]

I dont see any conversion to Christ there. Instead I see "Lets merge our religions--lets see what we can learn FROM EACH OTHER"

If paul had followed this example--he would have sat down for a rap session with the Athenians and they would have gotten him to take their holy writings home....

Sigh....

[ironmonk]

Maybe you would understand better if you loved your enemy, read the bible, and actually did a little study?

[b]Romans 2:14 [/b]
For when the Gentiles who do not have the law by nature observe the prescriptions of the law, they are a law for themselves even though they do not have the law.
[b]15 [/b]They show that the demands of the law are written in their hearts, 6 while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even defend them



[url="http://www.nccbuscc.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt3art9p3.htm"]http://www.nccbuscc.org/catechism/text/pt1...chpt3art9p3.htm[/url]

[b]841 [/b]
The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330

[b]842 [/b]
The Church's bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:


All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . . .331


[b]843 [/b]
The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332


[b]844 [/b]
In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:


Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.333


[b]845 [/b]
To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son's Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is "the world reconciled." She is that bark which "in the full sail of the Lord's cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world." According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah's ark, which alone saves from the flood.334





God Bless,
ironmonk

[Budge]

Disagree with all of those but this one especially...

[b]843
The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332[/b]

The message is inherently that all false religions lead to God....even if in error. Basic Universalism 101.

False religions many of which are authored by Satan do not prepare for the gospel but LEAD away from the gospel. Even Buddhism and Hinduism form todays under foundation to the New Age movement. The New Age movement another strong force in UU churches teaches the lie of the garden..."Ye shall be as Gods" This is Satan talking. Satan talks through many of the worlds false religions.

Consider this....DO YOU BELIEVE FALSE RELIGIONS WERE ALL AUTHORED BY GOD OR BY SATAN?


Only Judaism is the exception--as the Jewish people gave us Christ and introduced to Jehovah to the world could only make this claim. The rest are Mystery Babylon, pagansim, son worship--Condemned By God.

This is a total lie that truth is to be found in other religions.

2 Thessolonians 2:3 [b]Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; [/b]

John 8:44 [b]Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. [/b]

THIS VERSE DIRECTLY REFUTES The Catholic CCC I quoted

False religions do not hold ANY of Gods Truths.

God Hates Interreligious Dialogue

Deu 12:28 Observe and hear all these words which I command thee, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee for ever, when thou doest [that which is] good and right in the sight of the LORD thy God.


Deu 12:29 When the LORD thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land;


Deu 12:30 [b]Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.[/b]

(GOD CONDEMNATION RIGHT THERE OF INTERFAITH OR INTERRELIGIOUS DIALOGUE)


Deu 12:31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God:[b] for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. [/b]


Deu 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: [b]thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it. [/b]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Budge]

It is not hate to tell people the truth and teach them the gospel.

[theculturewarrior]

To teach the Truth, you have to know it first. You cannot know Truth if you refuse to see what is good in other cultures/religions. There is a big wide world outside of fundamentalism!

For example...Muslims are pro-life. Moreso than many Christians sects.

Muslims worship a God who is One. So do we. Of course their theology is imperfect, but they did get that right. CMIIW but I think Muslims are taught to love one another.

Muslims also teach that Jesus was a prophet. They don't have the perfect theology on this, and you could make the case that they have fallen under the spirit of the antichrist. But they do acknowledge him and honor him, which is better than most religions.

[CanCath]

The Church does not accept other religions as complete truths. And we are aware of those bible verses.
However, we also believe in God's Mercy, and to be quite frankly, we have no clue who is in Heaven and who is not. For all we know, Hitler could be in Heaven. WE just don't know what happens really. So, to say that Muslims are eternally screwed because they are not aware of the Truth seems quite contrary to God's nature. I mean, you are only accountable for what you know.

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

[quote]The message is inherently that all false religions lead to God....even if in error. Basic Universalism 101. [/quote]

The message is not that all false religions will lead you completely to God, but that many seek to find God. At the beginning of the Catechism, it states something that sounds like "the nature of man is to know God." We as men cannot help but do so. That is why the Jews kept coming back in the early parts of the Old Testament and why even fallen Catholics and atheists today come to the Catholic faith. There are those who have yet to hear the Gospel but still desire to know God.

An analogy is to suppose that most men have terrible eyesight, and everything we see is a total blur. Imagine that God is a painting on the wall. We can squint and try to make out details on our own, never truly seeing anything, but we know that something is on the wall. Then we get some eyeglasses, which represent the Gospel. After we put the glasses on, we can fully see the painting on the wall; so as we accept the Gospel, we can see the truth about God.

To say that all non-Christian religions have NO truth in them is a bit presumptuous. Yes, there are some Satanic influences in them, but in some places there are some partial truths. If what you say is true about a religion such as Islam being false, why does Islam promote that homosexuality and abortion are sinful? That those are sins is a true statement, so your statement about there not being any truth in non-Christian religions is patently false.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Budge' date='Jun 15 2004, 10:53 AM'] Disagree with all of those but this one especially...

[b]843
The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332[/b]

The message is inherently that all false religions lead to God....even if in error. Basic Universalism 101.

[/quote]
Wrong.
It does not say that at all. Your conclusiion is not supported by the text.

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

Budge, I think that you don't understand the way that Catholics preach the Gospel. As a Baptist, your main method of preaching is most likely witnessing, so telling someone how you feel about God and what is in the Bible is how you see bringing someone into the Christian faith. Am I right?

Catholics believe that the best method of preaching is through living a life of faith and letting your love of God show in you. If people see how happy and loving you are as a Christian, others will want to know about Jesus. Even Blessed Mother Teresa, who even some non-Catholics agree was a saint in her time, did not focus on preaching bible verses to the people dying of AIDS. Her ministry was entirely founded upon "These sick people need someone to care for them and be with them, let's do that because the bible tells us that we should."

As St. Francis said, "Preach the Gospel throughout the world, and if necessary, use words."

[jasJis]

[quote name='Budge' date='Jun 15 2004, 08:53 AM'] Disagree with all of those but this one especially...

[b]843
The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332[/b]

.....


Deu 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: [b]thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it. [/b]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [/quote]
Budge,

Quite simple really. When you realize the Church is the Fullness of Truth, you realize that the Chuch cannot deny the partial and/or mis-understood Truths of God Himslef that mankind recognizes through Grace in other religions.

When Jesus rode to Jerusalem with a path strewn with branches, what was his response to those who told Jesus to quiet the crowds who shouted Jesus' glory as the King? Jesus said that if he quieted the people, the very rocks would shout in glory. Who preached to the rocks? Nobody preached to the rocks, the rocks possessed the grace of God, given in their creation by their Creator, the inability to repress the Glory of God.

God is All That is Good, the Sole Creator, the Unique Omnipotent Being. We, and all existence, is created and kept in existence simply because God wills His Glory to become manifest. Mankind is created with freewill and is created with inherent Grace to recognize and seek Good (God) as well as the ability to reject Good (God) and choose evil. Knowledge of God is not limited to what mankind tells one another.

The Catholic Church cannot deny the Truth of the Glory of God and is obligated to acknowledge what other religions, non-Chrisians, etc., find and recognize. It obligates Catholics (all Christians) to spread the Word to increase and better the knowledge and bring them closer to the Fullness of Truth. It's not 'Universalism 101' as you claim, in the sense it's a diminshement of the Perfect Essense of the Truth of God. It's 'Omnipotent and Sole Creator of All, (Remedial Studies)'.

[Guest JeffCR07]

Budge, honestly...sometimes...

Allow me to clarify a little bit of the Church's teachings on how Catholicism relates to other religions:

The simple existence of an Old Testament and a New Testament, really, is all that one needs to logically prove the stance of the Catholic Church. In the existence of the Old and New Testaments, it is clear that God revealed himself to mankind slowly and deliberately. The new testament is a fullfillment of the Old Testament, it doesn't throw it away. So what can we say about Judaism? We can say that the Jews "know" God, and he is the [i]same[/i] God, they simply do not know him in the fullness of revelation.

So what about other Religions?

It is obvious that mankind has an innate tendency towards religion, but that doesn't mean that we all end up in the same place.

Like the Jews, other religions have some degree of Truth, though they differ in how close they come (Even Taoism believes in eternity, though they don't understand that God IS Eternity).

If you want to believe that other religions are twisted and controlled by the devil, fine, you might even be right. But Satan cannot undo what God has done, and in even the most vile twisting of religion, the Source, God, can be found.

So what do we do with these religions that don't have the fullness of Truth?

We [i]talk[/i] to them. We [i]teach[/i] them. We [i]help[/i] them, that they may come into the fullness of Christ.

And that isn't an easy thing. Christ's teachings are hard. Patience is necessary. We can't convert people by just jumping on top of them and forcing it. And the Holy Father knows this.

When the Bishops speak of interpreting scripture together, that makes PERFECT sense. By looking at what they have, and what we have, we can show them where their teaching is right and where it is wrong, and we can explain [i]why[/i]

You spoke of evangelising to them. That is exactly what this is. Evangelism, spreading Christ's good news, is LOVE, not slapping someone like a red-headed stepchild just because they happen to be wrong about something.

It really isn't that hard....

[ironmonk]

It is NOT universalism, and it does NOT say that all lead to God.

Don't be lazy.
GO to the link and get the whole picture of the teaching.
STUDY STUDY STUDY.

If you would have went to the link and actually read the page, you would have seen the below.

You CANNOT make a sound judgement on partial information. NO ONE can.


[i]"Outside the Church there is no salvation"[/i]

[b]846 [/b]
How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:


Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336


[b]847 [/b]
This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:


Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation.337


[b]848 [/b]
"Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338


-------------------------------------------------------------




Ignorance is not bliss... you don't have to be ignorant, you can study and learn.


God Bless,
ironmonk

Edited June 15, 2004 by ironmonk