Why Is The Vatican So Accepting Of Islam?

[Norseman82]

1) In the second chapter of Romans Paul refers to the law that is written in our hearts. This is also known as the "natural law".

2) In Acts 17 Paul used the statue dedicated to the "unknown God" as an opening to preach Christ. Some people became believers as a result.

[yiannii]

Does anyone know where in the Bible it talks about how we as Christians are the yeast in the dough? I can't find it but I think it would fit in well with this discussion.
Another quote where we are referred to as the light of the world and the salt of the earth....

[ironmonk]

[quote name='yiannii' date='Jun 16 2004, 09:43 AM'] Does anyone know where in the Bible it talks about how we as Christians are the yeast in the dough? I can't find it but I think it would fit in well with this discussion.
Another quote where we are referred to as the light of the world and the salt of the earth....  [/quote]
Light of the earth and salt of the world refered to the Church. Like a city on a moutain for all to see - St. Matt 5:13-15.

The yeast in the dough thing is in Galatians... all the letters where written to the fathers of the Churches in those areas... not to every single Christian, though we all may learn from the letters, they were written to the fathers about teaching us laymen.


God Bless,
ironmonk


PS...
Another thing to note that when the letters of the New Testament were written, it was one long letter. They were not in chapters and verses. That came much later.

Edited June 16, 2004 by ironmonk

[Guest JeffCR07]

yea, thats definately a good thing to keep in the back of your mind when you read scripture

[Guest JeffCR07]

cuz reading it in context adds so much depth: It just proves that the word of God can never be taken on just one level: there's always so much more too it if you just look deeper

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Budge' date='Jun 15 2004, 08:23 AM']If paul had followed this example--he would have sat down for a rap session with the Athenians and they would have gotten him to take their holy writings home....

Sigh....[/quote]
As far as we know St. Paul didn't take home from the Areopagus any writings of the classical Greeks, but we do know that he was already quite familiar with those writings. We know this because while he was speaking to the men of Athens about Christ, he quoted Epimenides' poem [i][u]Cretica[/u][/i] and said, "For in Him we live and move and have our being," [cf., Acts 17:28a] and then he went on and quoted another text from a pagan, i.e., Aratus’ [i][u]Phaenomena[/u][/i], when he said "For we are indeed His offspring." [cf., Acts 17:28b] What this shows is that St. Paul, unlike modern day Fundamentalists, was not averse to quoting texts that were important to the men with whom he was speaking. He used the truths that those men already knew about God in order to speak to them about Christ, with the hope of course, of bringing them to faith in Jesus and to the fulness of truth that can be found only in Him. But I suppose that St. Paul shouldn't have done that; instead, he should have told the men of Athens that they were all evil and in error, and that only by rejecting the truths that they already knew, could they possibly be saved. Well, I guess it's a good thing that St. Paul wasn't a Fundamentalist.

[Guest JeffCR07]

Apotheoun...I...good job. Thats all I can say. I had no idea Paul was quoting those texts. Thanks.

[Budge]

HEy nothing wrong with quoting their own poems and such...I have a friend who is Unitarian Universalist, I talk to her about the nature of god, what UU believe etc.....

the difference is[b] that PAUL WENT ON TO PREACH THE GOSPEL.[/b]

I have been studying the interfaith movement a LONG time.

I have yet to see Christ preached at any of these interfaith activities. The message is always "You already know god" "Please pray to your gods" "Let us learn more about your religion"

I have never seen any witnessing done whatsoever.

IN fact [b]prolestyzation or any witnessing is OUTLAWED[/b] at many of these events including the Popes. HERE IS A QUESTION, WHEN DID THE POPE TELL THE PEOPLE OF FALSE RELIGIONS DIRECTLY ABOUT JESUS CHRIST? HE HAD THEM PRAY TO THEIR FALSE GODS INSTEAD!

[url="http://www.vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/documents/ns_lit_doc_20020124_assisi_en.html"]http://www.vatican.va/news_services/liturg..._assisi_en.html[/url]

[quote]He added that it was his intention "to invite representatives of the religions of the world to come to Assisi on 24 January 2002 in order to pray for an end to hostilities and the advancement of true peace".2[/quote]

Why would any Christian sanction prayer to false gods?

THis is directly from the Vatican website, including a pic of a VERY UNITARIAN-UNIVERSALIST like chalice. In UU churches at our services we would light a chalice. The little chalices say it all to an ex-Unitarian Universalist who had the Holy Spirit take her out of Satan lies.

[url="http://www.vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/documents/ns_lit_doc_20020124_assisi-giornata_en.html"]http://www.vatican.va/news_services/liturg...iornata_en.html[/url]

The words are very close to Alice Bailey's Great Invocation

[quote]Violence never again!
War never again!
Terrorism never again!
[b]In God's name,
may all religions bring upon earth
justice and peace,
forgiveness, life and love![/b][/quote]

Here the Vatican shows itself for the universalists they are. Thsoe who are in Christ, know that false religions bring destruction, bondage and have no hope of peace.

Places for prayers:

[quote].        Places set aside for prayer

-        Lower Basilica:        Christians

-        Sacred Convent:     

Room A          Islam
Room B          Buddhism
Room C          Sikhism 
Room D          African Traditional Religions
Room E          Hinduism
Room F          Tenrikyo
Room G          Shintoism
Room H          Judaism
Room I            Zoroastrianism, Janinism and Confucianism [/quote]

[b]DONT MISS THE PICS[/b]

[url="http://www.vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/documents/travels/assisi9.html"]http://www.vatican.va/news_services/liturg...ls/assisi9.html[/url]

[url="http://www.vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/documents/travels/assisi7.html"]http://www.vatican.va/news_services/liturg...ls/assisi7.html[/url]

[url="http://www.vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/documents/travels/assisi8.html"]http://www.vatican.va/news_services/liturg...ls/assisi8.html[/url]

This one has the Vooduns with libations for the spirits included.

[url="http://www.vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/documents/travels/assisi6.html"]http://www.vatican.va/news_services/liturg...ls/assisi6.html[/url]



Eumenicism and Interfaithism are deceptions

[url="http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/interfaithroads.htm"]http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/interfaithroads.htm[/url]

[url="http://www.letusreason.org/Proph10.htm"]http://www.letusreason.org/Proph10.htm[/url]

Catholic opinion

[quote]Rome should understand that the Catholic in the pew views the whole ecumenical enterprise from this scandalous workaday perspective. That is why, even with the best possible spin on the Holy Father's good intentions, you simply cannot view the likes of Assisi and other multi-faith extravaganzas in isolation.

The syncretic images and equivocal reports they engender reinforce the studiously false ecumenical messages and events that now pervade Catholic life in practice, not only furthering protestantisation among the uncatechised but effecting confusion, acrimony and even lapsation among the orthodox faithful. [/quote]

So I dont buy everyones opinion here that its all about bringing people to Christ. Christ is not being preached. They are preaching the false peace gospel warned about in Daniel 8 preparing the way for the AntiChrist

"By peace he shall destroy many"

[Guest JeffCR07]

But Budge, you arn't making logical sense. Paul had to read the texts first, THEN use them to convert unbelievers. The Holy Father is not [i]changing[/i] the dogma or doctrine of the Church, nor is he trying to incorporate false doctrines into it.

If I tell an Aborigini that Christ is God and that they should worship him, he may or may not believe me.

But if I show an Aborigini that I have knowledge of HIS faith, and then prove to him that the truth of his faith leads logically to the truth of Catholicism, how much more likely will he be to believe!

Thats all that is happening...

- Your Brother in Christ, Jeff

[Budge]

[quote]that the truth of his faith leads logically to the truth of Catholicism[/quote]

First find me one time where they openly witness at any of these interfaith events and say something along the lines of

"Let me tell you about Jesus Christ"

I have yet to find it.

There is no truth in false faiths.

I think I am truly realizing how when I became a UU after leaving the Catholic church, I really didnt far that fall from the apple tree.

[dUSt]

[quote name='Budge' date='Jun 16 2004, 03:32 PM'] There is no truth in false faiths. [/quote]
What?

So, Judaism believes in one God. This is not true? Are you saying that there is more than one God?

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

[quote name='Budge' date='Jun 16 2004, 03:32 PM']
First find me one time where they openly witness at any of these interfaith events and say something along the lines of

"Let me tell you about Jesus Christ"

I have yet to find it. [/quote]
That's because Catholics don't preach that way! Remeber what St. Francis said.

Most non-Christians, and in fact even most of the non-devout Christians, get really turned off by the "let me tell you about Jesus Christ" statement. This direct approach, while straight to the point, is not extremely effective. It works when people are in a noticable moment of sorrow, but the average secular person who is pretty satisfied with their life and doesn't realize he needs something more isn't going to listen to you for very long.

Instead, Catholics preach by living the Word. That's why there are so many Catholic hospitals, Catholic charities, Catholic pro-life groups, etc. I think I can be a much better witness to my faith by living virtuously and letting it show. If people see that I'm happy, they may then wonder why. As far as witnessing to the poor, the sick, the homeless, etc., the bible doesn't tell us to hand bibles out to these people. Instead, we are directed by the bible to give money the poor, care for the sick, give shelter to the homeless, etc. You can get a much greater attention out of a hungry man by giving him food as opposed to handing him a bible and telling him he needs to be saved. He wants to eat, that's his first problem!

Anyways, to apply this to this interfaith event, I guarantee you no one would show up to the next one if the Pope spoke up about how everyone else is condemned to hell and they need to accept Jesus. Instead, the Pope will let the love of Christians show at the conference and plant the seeds of the true Faith in them.

As an analogy, if you were a republican, and a democrat friend of yours invited you over to a friendly dinner and gave a speech to you about why you should become a democrat, you probably would be offended and wouldn't come back over again, right?

[musturde]

Besides that point, I think we'd attract people to the faith by our open-mindedness.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Budge' date='Jun 16 2004, 03:32 PM']


There is no truth in false faiths.

[/quote]
Uh, Romans 2:15??

[Mary's Knight, La]

Budge

have you ever been part of someone's conversion? i ask because you seem to say the outline of converting someone resembles the following:

1. Hey you're wrong
2. Hey I'm right
3. Why don't you convert

it's not this simple in converting a single person, the conversion of a single person usually involves many encounters the first of which is to usually establish your credibility by *their* criteria. then many many discussions later you come around to correcting certain errors in their thought.

the ecumenical movement is not about converting a single person rather it is about converting an entire religion, this will of course lead to several individual conversions but if the conversion of one person may take decades the the conversion of groups will almost certainly take decades and possibly even centuries. but it is a good way of getting no where fast to simply say hey you're wrong.

the CC instead would rather say "you're saying this... and it's mostly right but it doesn't quite work because ... "

bruising someone's ego has the lowest success rate of any attempt at conversion, a good kick in the pants can do wonders but only when it is begun and followed with love

[Hananiah]

Budge, you are being logically inconsistent. Judaism teaches that there is one God. If there is no truth in false religions then there can't be one God. False religions are true in so far as they mirror Christianity. Only where they contradict Christianity, and where they make claims over and above Christianity, are they false.

That having been said, I agree that Christ needs to be preached at these inter faith meetings. It's not enough to tell Jews, Muslims, Pagans, etc. that they have part of the truth; one must also tell them that they lack a great deal of the truth and that the entire truth is necessary for salvation. This is where today's ecumenism fails miserably.

[Budge]

[quote]Budge

have you ever been part of someone's conversion? i ask because you seem to say the outline of converting someone resembles the following:[/quote]

I am a newbie Christian but actually I have. My husband is getting closer to coming to Christ when before he was agnostic. I have led people to Christ online as part of a group. One more directly, so its happened. I have led one friend out of Wicca though she is not quite a Christian she is asking me questions about God and Bible Prophecy and given up witchcraft.

Its silly for you all to say I am mean to unbelievers. My best friend is a UU, I also have contact with many unbelievers. I can talk to all of them. I do talk to them about Jesus. In fact I have New Agers, and others over to my home constantly. My family is all Catholic with one exception. The only fund. Christians I know are my church members and a couple friends. I have a EO friend too and friends who are atheists. I am not silent and live and witness my faith. You need to LIVE AND SPEAK IT. Not just one or the other.

[quote]the ecumenical movement is not about converting a single person rather it is about converting an entire religion, this will of course lead to several individual conversions but if the conversion of one person may take decades the the conversion of groups will almost certainly take decades and possibly even centuries. but it is a good way of getting no where fast to simply say hey you're wrong.[/quote]

You cant convert a religion and how is this Biblical?

(Judaism is an exception, because they know Jehovah) know I wrote that elsewhere. Christ stills needs preached to them though.
And yes you are right they are failing to preach Christ. I havent seen Jesus preached at any of these interfaith meetings.

[MorphRC]

I see many people have fallen for the 'Same God' junk here. Maybe the Church should do an ACCURATE study of history, instead of a biased one that only leads to the death of christianity.

Im sick of hearing they worship the same God, they respect Jesus and Mary, they wanna be one with christians..well maybe we should look at the[b] BYZANTINES[/b], [b]GREEKS, ROMANS, BOSNIANS, AFRIKAANS, SUDANESE[/b]. Yes these people respect Christians, christ etc, and they show it by cutting their heads off..wow [i]SHOW ME THE LOVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE[/i]

[musturde]

cutting our heads off? Sorry RC, didn't understand that one...

[MorphRC]

[quote name='musturde' date='Jun 21 2004, 12:29 PM'] cutting our heads off? Sorry RC, didn't understand that one... [/quote]
Cutting their heads off.

* Aint Christian *