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Pope Francis Continues to Denigrate Traditionalists


Nihil Obstat

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20 hours ago, Jack4 said:

@Amppax

Are you saying that, in those posts, there is more to it than the surface, something which happened in the past was reflected there? Forgive my ignorance of this language, my brother. 

Yes, that's what I'm saying. I was trying to be witty; I'm not always successful. 

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CountrySteve21

One thing I don't get, why do we have to divide ourselves into different groups? I don't think we should be divided into "groups" such as traditionalist's,progressivists etc. It does not help; plus St. Paul in his First Epistle to the Corinthians warns against that.

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"I appeal to you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no dissensions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment." - 1st Corinthians 1:10

   

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27 minutes ago, Amppax said:

Yes, that's what I'm saying.

Thank you for clarifying. 

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I was trying to be witty; I'm not always successful.

Mea culpa, ESL. 

23 minutes ago, CountrySteve21 said:

One thing I don't get, why do we have to divide ourselves into different groups? I don't think we should be divided into "groups" such as traditionalist's,progressivists etc. It does not help; plus St. Paul in his First Epistle to the Corinthians warns against that.

   

In essentials, unity

In non essentials, liberty

In all things, charity.

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Quotation re "in essentials unity etc." sometimes attributed to St Augustine but that is challenged.  Anyway, St Paul would trump St Augustine in my book.  Also, what St Paul stated would be an essential (i.e. unity) - see post by  @CountrySteve21.  "All things love" is sometimes shaky too as a lived out expression of The Gospel and Catholicism for one - mea culpa.  Be that as it may, "Love" would mean agape.

"Non essentials" would be where The Church has left a question open for debate.

_________________

There are questions open for debate by The Church; however, especially where groups have formed in The Church there can be a tendency at times to state their position as the only position.

Edited by BarbaraTherese
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1 hour ago, BarbaraTherese said:

Quotation re "in essentials unity etc." sometimes attributed to St Augustine but that is challenged. 

I know, but that alone wouldn't change the truth of the statement. 

Don't you like Hark Herald the Angels Sing?

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 Anyway, St Paul would trump St Augustine in my book.

Read the rest of this post: There is no contradiction between Paul and (pseudo) Augustine here. 

But yes, what you said seems to be correct, though I would phrase it very differently: Scripture would trump the individual writing of a Father. 

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 Also, what St Paul stated would be an essential (i.e. unity) - see post by  @CountrySteve21.  "All things love" is sometimes shaky too as a lived out expression of The Gospel and Catholicism for one - mea culpa.  Be that as it may, "Love" would mean agape.

Can you explain further?

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"Non essentials" would be where The Church has left a question open for debate.

Choice, here. We (or rather, you) may choose to attend the EF or OF (to put it simply. there are, as you know, some requirements.)

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What was the context of Paul in 1Cor1 ? 

 

10 I appeal to you, brothers and sisters,[a] in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought. 11 My brothers and sisters, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12 What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?

 

Let us not forget that he was the person who boldly admonished the then-Pope at Antioch. 

Edited by Jack4
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dominicansoul
15 hours ago, CountrySteve21 said:

One thing I don't get, why do we have to divide ourselves into different groups? I don't think we should be divided into "groups" such as traditionalist's,progressivists etc. It does not help; plus St. Paul in his First Epistle to the Corinthians warns against that.

   

Well then we should all be traditionalists.  lol

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CountrySteve21
4 hours ago, dominicansoul said:

Well then we should all be traditionalists.  lol

Too a degree, after all the Church was not born in the 70s. I would love to see a wider use of the E.F. Missal and if the Pope was to abolish the O.F. Missal I would not complain. ;) 

However my point was  the division can be problematic. Some "trads" for example have a schismatic mentality which undermines the authority of our bishops. On the other hand though, the "liberals" embracing heresy isn't good either.

And yes, by my use of labels that makes me a hypocrite. :hehe2:

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5 hours ago, CountrySteve21 said:

Too a degree, after all the Church was not born in the 70s. I would love to see a wider use of the E.F. Missal and if the Pope was to abolish the O.F. Missal I would not complain. ;) 

:shocking:

That is against the spirit of Vatican II ! 

:)

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Rad Trads love the Holy Father and all the Pope does is attack them and call them rigid.

FB_IMG_1480374210751.jpg

FB_IMG_1480374126185.jpg

Won't name the Rad Trads aka best Catholics of all time who was distributing these.

Edited by Guest
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3 hours ago, CountrySteve21 said:

Yeah. 

It's so wonderful to have Vatican II allow the Church to grow into the modern times. Who in the world likes 

https://youtu.be/jRY8Bjc-Kw8 Axion Estin, Byzantine tradition

https://youtu.be/ZRhb56R_4aE Sogdinan la Slibo, West Syriac tradition

https://youtu.be/xyYs3dDoOIw Laku Mara, East Syriac (my!) tradition

https://youtu.be/ZVwuc_CNswY  Praeconium Paschale ("Exultet"), Roman tradition

Can you even compare them with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbNXqjwh8is (Gather us in) ?

 

Edited by Jack4
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1 hour ago, Josh said:

Rad Trads love the Holy Father and all the Pope does is attack them and call them rigid.

 

 

Won't name the Rad Trads aka best Catholics of all time who was distributing these.

Josh, I do not engage with self-righteousness and temper tantrums. If you want to have a discussion about traditionalists then I am happy to do so, but first cut it out with the outrage. If all you want to do is complain about how mean traditionalists are, then find somewhere else to do it.

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Just now, Nihil Obstat said:

Josh, I do not engage with self-righteousness and temper tantrums. If you want to have a discussion about traditionalists then I am happy to do so, but first cut it out with the outrage. If all you want to do is complain about how mean traditionalists are, then find somewhere else to do it.

I'm just posting on Phatmass lol Deal with it.

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Just now, Josh said:

I'm just posting on Phatmass lol Deal with it.

:idontknow: I always treat you with respect. If I cannot expect the same in return, then I guess that is how it is.

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