More Than 300 Predator Priests In Pennsylvania Protected By Catholic Church

[Peace]

2 hours ago, Ash Wednesday said:

Yyyyyyyyyyyyup. I expect that other states will also follow suit.

I've even debated whether or not we should just have a thread to discuss all of this in case it gets so bad it floods the board.

Let me know what you all think.

Well hopefully She will get some better lawyers this time around.

[islander]

On 9/2/2018 at 6:58 AM, Josh said:

 

Like I said I'm still a practicing Catholic. Going to Mass tommorow. Despite what Peace said "That I've been done and this is my excuse to leave" I go to Mass every weekend and on days of Obligation. All I'm saying is I'm completely done with the religious aspect of being Catholic or Christian. I've already been done with that aspect for awhile now but this is the nail in the coffin. I can't even put into words to describe what I mean by being done with the religious aspect of being Catholic but in my mind I picture it clearly. I know we are called to be Holy. I will try to do that but being Holy and religious are not synonymous. I think mistakenly a lot of the time people think they are.

Reading your posts and agreeing with you. Occurs to me that maybe the word you are seeking is not "religious" but a much older word some here will not maybe know. "religiose". The outward show without necessarily the inner aspects?  Making sure folk think you are holy when it is religiosity.  I once knew someone who stopped going to Mass over what he called the hypocrisy he saw. Outwardly holy in church but then gossiping and backbiting  on the church steps. 

[Ice_nine]

On 8/18/2018 at 10:44 PM, BG45 said:

 

 

To me, it's about the Eucharist.  If the Eucharist is true, and it is, then that's the reason to remain Catholic, despite the horrible things in this report. 

It is a concern of mine though that if there is such a large number of faithless clerics (I find it really hard to conceive how one could rape boys using religious authority and simultaneously believe in divine justice) who are essentially atheists (maybe even purposely trying to destroy the church) how can we be sure that the Eucharist is valid in all of most cases? Is not intention of the individual priest confecting the Eucharist a pre-requisite for the validity thereof?

I think that more than anything scares me.

And my other concern, folks say it's about the Church belonging to Christ, being his mystical body and all, but much of the theology of the church is inextricably tied to the authority of (and therefore the obedience to)  priests and bishops. Disobedience can be damning. Of course we should not condone clerics who persist in sin, but isn't a theological command to obedience the reason we're in this mess? Because speaking ill of someone who is in persona Christi (even if that person is doing vile things) will incur the penalties of slander, pride, disobedience, whatever? I know calling out pedophile priests doesn't seem like a scary thing nowadays but I'm sure many people were silenced by clerics invoking their theologically, dogmatically supported claims to authority decades ago while these crimes were taking place.

I guess in all that babbling I'm experiencing some cognitive dissonance.  How am I to separate the faulty human element in the church from the teachings and the sacraments of the church, when obedience to certain humans (priests, bishops, popes) is taught by the church?

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Ice_nine said:

It is a concern of mine though that if there is such a large number of faithless clerics (I find it really hard to conceive how one could rape boys using religious authority and simultaneously believe in divine justice) who are essentially atheists (maybe even purposely trying to destroy the church) how can we be sure that the Eucharist is valid in all of most cases? Is not intention of the individual priest confecting the Eucharist a pre-requisite for the validity thereof?

Rest easy.https://www.ewtn.com/library/Liturgy/zlitur68.htm  EWTN - Excerpt only: "Normally, to celebrate Mass or receive Communion while in a state of mortal sin would be to commit a sacrilege. Yet, the sacrament would be valid; that is, there would be a true consecration and a true sacrifice. 

The reason is: Christ is the principal actor of the sacraments(This is what in Persona Christi means - brackets mine), so they are efficacious even when performed by an unworthy minister. As St. Thomas Aquinas says: Christ may act even through a minister who is spiritually dead." 

Give the whole text on the EWTN link above a read, it isn't very long and is informative/educational.

11 hours ago, Ice_nine said:

Disobedience can be damning.

We are definitely not called to obedience where sin is involved.

 

11 hours ago, Ice_nine said:

  How am I to separate the faulty human element in the church from the teachings and the sacraments of the church, when obedience to certain humans (priests, bishops, popes) is taught by the church?

We are not called to invest (unconditional trust) in the human element of The Church.  We are called to unconditional trust in Jesus, who is The Head and Foundation of The Church, His Mystical Body on earth.  The human element of The Church - and because the leadership of The Church is indeed human - there is always the potential to go astray.  We have seen this alarmingly and heinously in recent scandals involving those in Holy Orders..........and "astray" is far too mild a word!

Psalm 146 "Put no trust in princes,

in children of Adam powerless to save.

Who breathing his last, returns to the earth;

that day all his planning comes to nothing."

 

Edited September 12, 2018 by BarbaraTherese

[Guest]

Through baptism laity too are anointed as priest, prophet and king.  Very basically, a function of the prophet, is to identify where there is falsehood and the like - and call back to Truth.
 

Quote

 

https://www.wordonfire.org/resources/article/priests-prophets-kings/477/  "What does it mean for the average baptized person to be a prophet? A person is a prophet in the measure that he or she bears the truth of God. G.K. Chesterton said that in an upside-down world such as ours, the prophet is the one who stands on his head so that he might see things aright.

This is why, of course, prophets have always appeared more than a little insane  . In fact, the Hebrew word for prophet, “nabi,”, has the overtone of madman. Well, of course: in a world that has lost its bearings, those who speak the divine truth will, perforce, appear unhinged."

 

 

 

[Guest]

We are undefeated as long as we keep on trying, as long as we have some source of movement within ourselves and are not just moved by outside forces, as long as we retain the freedom of right decision and action, whatever the circumstances.

- George Appleton

 

Feelings too capricious guides, like windmills they can shift in any affecting breeze.

- Me

[BG45]

Lord have mercy   New report, commissioned by the Church, has leaked in Germany.  Thousands of children sexually abused by priests since the 1940s.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45500072

[KnightofChrist]

Yeah, I'm sorry but I'm more and more in support of hanging the rapist by the neck until dead, and those that covered it up should be put in prison for the rest of their lives.

Has anyone seen the Pope's recent homily? Where he said that Satan has been let loose and is attacking bishops. That Satan is trying to uncover the sins of the Bishops in order to cause scandal. 

I'm just, I don't even know what to say to that. I don't think it was very wise point to make at this time. Even if I could see the point of ever making it. Plus Satan likes to keep things in the dark, being the prince of darkness, Christ uncovers the truth, He is the light. Strange that he should make such comments as the sins of the cover up of bishops is coming to light. Just strange, very strange.

[Guest]

I think that if Satan concluded that uncovering the sins (instead of keeping them in the dark) would further scandalise The Catholic Church and further damage Her reputation, then that thing would work to bring the sins of bishops into the light.  Be that as it may, any in Holy Orders of any rank covering up of the crimes of abuser priest or priests are sins that must come into the light with Church and secular penalties paid if guilty. Jesus assures us that: "There is nothing concealed that will not be revealed" and no matter who does the concealing and/or revealing..........as per our doctrine of Divine Providence.

Certainly in revealing the sins of bishops and all the furore that is going around about the bishops and priests in The Church, it is easy to forget it is some, not all.  Our bishops are highly Graced, amazingly Graced, and honored by Holy Orders, they are also human beings prone to sinfulness along with us all.

Psalm 146 "Put no trust in princes, in children of Adam powerless to save. Who breathing his last, returns to the earth; that day all his planning comes to nothing."

As I posted elsewhere, the scandal to my mind will worsen and even potentially to the very top.  I will be grieved but not surprised.  Be all that as it may, I am determined to remember that accusations are not proven crimes.

Luke Chapter 12 "There is nothing concealed that will not be revealed, nor secret that will not be known. Therefore whatever you have said in the darkness will be heard in the light, and what you have whispered behind closed doors will be proclaimed on the housetops. "

Come Holy Spirit Come.  Shed Your Light into and onto The Church and kindle in our hearts wisdom and the flame of Your Divine Love.

[Ash Wednesday]

5 hours ago, KnightofChrist said:

Yeah, I'm sorry but I'm more and more in support of hanging the rapist by the neck until dead, and those that covered it up should be put in prison for the rest of their lives.

Has anyone seen the Pope's recent homily? Where he said that Satan has been let loose and is attacking bishops. That Satan is trying to uncover the sins of the Bishops in order to cause scandal. 

I'm just, I don't even know what to say to that. I don't think it was very wise point to make at this time. Even if I could see the point of ever making it. Plus Satan likes to keep things in the dark, being the prince of darkness, Christ uncovers the truth, He is the light. Strange that he should make such comments as the sins of the cover up of bishops is coming to light. Just strange, very strange.

I read the homily, and I didn't understand that either. For good reason, we don't need to know the sins of every Tom, Dick and Harry -- but as far as circumstances now, I'm going to go with St. Gregory on this one:

Quote

"It is better that scandals arise than the truth be suppressed." 

-- St. Gregory the Great

 

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, Ash Wednesday said:

  Quote

"It is better that scandals arise than the truth be suppressed." 

-- St. Gregory the Great

[BG45]

So the Bishop of the diocese where I came into the Church, and who was there when I did, has resigned.  Pope Francis has appointed a new Bishop to the Diocese of Wheeling-Charleston and ordered an investigation into allegations against him.

 

https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2018/09/13/pope-francis-accepts-resignation-west-virginia-bishop-accused-sexually-harassing

[Guest]

It is distressing when one's bishop is caught up in the abuse scandal.  Prayer for you and your diocese, BG45.   Our Archbishop has resigned too, no new appointment as yet.

 

[jmjtina]

+JMJ

Worth listening to if you haven't already. 

Honestly, all AG's need to order an investigation of all dioceses. 

[Guest]

Not much confidence in "World Over" 

but the above is an important interview and information. 

Thank you for posting, jmjtina.

 

My own Archbishop has been convicted in a secular court and resigned and Cardinal Pell has been charged and to face trial, although difficult to know details as there is a move to gag media.  There is a movement by the Public Prosecutor of New South Wales to have Archbishop Wilson jailed rather than house arrest as now.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/14/world/australia/george-pell-trial-super-injunction.html

https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2018/05/14/court-to-consider-request-for-media-gag-order-in-cardinal-pell-trial/

_______________

Quote

 

Matthew Chapter 18

Douay Rheims: "Woe to the world because of scandals. For it must needs be that scandals come: but nevertheless woe to that man by whom the scandal cometh. "

The above is sometimes translated: "Woe to the world for the causes of sin. These stumbling blocks must come, but woe to the man through whom they come!"

 

My two cents.  I think that there is too much secrecy in the Vatican and that possibly/potentially even many ordinary Catholics might no longer trust the hierarchy.  Only transparency to my mind can change the current situation.  To loose trust in human beings, even if it is hierarchy no matter rank, is not of necessity a bad thing, providing one does not put a full-stop-end-of-story after "no longer trust hierarchy no matter rank" but commits to Grace (The Holy Spirit) and the journey with The Holy Spirit and His Graces.  Too often, it can seem that when an ordinary Catholic looses trust in the hierarchy, they abandon their Faith.  Hierarchy is not the Head of The Church.  It is Jesus.

 

23 hours ago, Ash Wednesday said:

"It is better that scandals arise than the truth be suppressed." 

-- St. Gregory the Great

Amen 

Edited September 14, 2018 by BarbaraTherese