More Than 300 Predator Priests In Pennsylvania Protected By Catholic Church

[little2add]

 

 

[Peace]

15 hours ago, Kateri89 said:

First, let me apologize for suggesting that you don’t view the Church as the body of Christ.  I’m sincerely sorry for suggesting that; this whole mess has really struck a nerve for me not just because of the serious allegations but also because they occurred largely within my own diocese and I recognized three priests in the report including the Bishop who presided over my confirmation, the current Bishop, and my childhood parish priest.  I think my response was out of anger and frustration and I shouldn’t have imputed any such thoughts or intentions to you.

That being said, I stand by my position that the Church is called to higher standards.  God calls us all to constantly seek perfection, but the mission of the Church vs the mission of secular organizations and companies are very different.  I don’t think that the Church has to release all internal documents.  What I’m suggesting is that if there were credible allegations against priests, which evidently there were because some of them were eventually defrocked after a long time of reassignments and one even ended up in prison despite clergy covering for him, then the parishioners have every right to know.  Megan’s Law requires sex offenders to be registered and this is available for the public to see; certainly this should extend to the Church as well.  I’m a nurse and a mandated reporter which means that if a patient of mine reports abuse, I’m required by law to report it to the proper authorities even if it ends up being untrue.  I can tell you that I have personally done this on multiple occasions.  It seems clear to me that when these allegations were received throughout the decades, the clergy had a moral responsibility (if it wasn’t already required by law) to report them to the authorities.  Then the accused would’ve had their chance to defend themselves.  If some of them actually were innocent, then their superiors did them no favors by hiding it because now they’re posthumously disgraced without being able to defend themselves as you said.

For those that were actually guilty, they didn’t receive the punishment they needed and the victims didn’t get justice.  

I would hold anybody inside of or outside of the Church to this standard.  However, as Catholics we know that being holy is about much more than not being a criminal.  It’s about the supernatural virtues that God grants us when we totally abandon ourselves to His will.  To violate His will in such a grave way isn’t just criminal in a worldly sense; it’s evil.

Thanks. No worries. I agree with most of what you wrote above.

[Ash Wednesday]

That awkward moment when an atheist has a better understanding of the Catholic faith.

[Peace]

18 minutes ago, Ash Wednesday said:

That awkward moment when an atheist has a better understanding of the Catholic faith.

LOL. Well FWIW, @Anomaly is an atheist in name only. He knows very well that God exists and that Catholicism is true. He just doesn’t want to live it.

[Anomaly]

3 minutes ago, Peace said:

LOL. Well FWIW, @Anomaly is an atheist in name only. He knows very well that God exists and that Catholicism is true. He just doesn’t want to live it.

@PeaceFWIW, You don’t really know me, know what I may know, or have a clue about how I live. But thanks for playing.

@Josh   Murder is probably worse than rape.   The Church teaches everything can be forgiven and everyone reconciled.   There are evil people who take advantage of that and abuse that ideal. You have always expressed passion about what you see as wrong.    I wish you peace of heart and mind, my friend.  

[dominicansoul]

nevermind, I'm just not gonna say anything about this anymore.  the whole entire thing makes me sick and I feel like people complaining about their loss of Faith just make it worse..

 

laters, Phatmass...

Edited August 30, 2018 by dominicansoul
We need a SMALLER, STRONGER CHURCH

[Ash Wednesday]

Quote

 If I didn't really believe in all of the theological precepts taught by the church, at least I wanted to — because I considered them beautiful, and because I wanted to be a part of the beauty, to elevate myself by assimilating myself to it.

That impulse seems very far away from me now. 

This is quoted from the article that Josh posted about the writer leaving the Church -- this quote suggests to me that the writer of the article joined the Church through impulse and emotion, but really did not believe all of the teachings of the Church. This happens a LOT.

His joining the Church sounds similar to my best friend who joined the Church in the late 90s -- I was her sponsor. I never forced her into it. She asked me about it, I explained it to her and eventually she wanted to be Catholic. When you become good friends, you tend to influence each other that way. She was trying to get on board with the teachings at the time and she really was in love with Catholic things, Catholic saints, Catholic devotions, and the idea of being Catholic. Because of her reservations and struggles with core teachings of the Church, I came to our parish priest about it, raised my concerns, and he arranged to have a private meeting with her. Everything went forward and she joined the Church, but after some time of trying to embrace the teachings and be a "good Catholic" but still simmering with questions and lingering resentment about things in the Church she found distasteful, she eventually fell away. 

I could go on about the fact that our parish's RCIA programs are kind of a conveyer belt where people who don't really accept the faith still join the Church, even the RCIA teachers don't really accept it ("I hate this part, the birth control part, but I have to go over this" -- literally what our RCIA instructor said.)

But being Catholic isn't just about nice stained glass windows, pretty rosaries, admiring the way things are written in the Catechism, uplifting spiritual experiences, fellowship, and tucking in to a nice Knights of Columbus Lenten fish fry. 

Being Catholic is also the cross and crucifixion. We don't get the luxury of being obscure and invisible like smaller churches and institutions during times like this. Those of us who choose to stay and want to clean up this mess will be called enablers, backwoods, unsophisticated, repressed, ignorant, dimwitted archaic fools. As the Body of Christ, we feel humiliation, anger, brokenness, abandonment, and intense suffering.

The first time I tried to consecrate myself to the Immaculate Heart, my mom died suddenly and I'm not sure I will ever fully get over it. The second time I tried and finally finished the prayer, among other trials, I went through a period of suffering from a health condition that was literally the worst pain and suffering I have ever endured in my entire life. I remember at one point praying for death. Maybe I was expecting a much more pleasant spiritual experience when I made the consecration, but what I got was the cross. Both times. And that's what I learned.

What I hope the Church collectively will learn from this, even if it has to be a smaller Church -- is conviction and authenticity.  Conviction -- truly believing and embracing it all in full even when it's hard, and authenticity -- truly living it.

[Peace]

2 hours ago, Anomaly said:

The Church teaches everything can be forgiven and everyone reconciled.

Yup, even you can be reconciled, when you are ready.

[Guest]

On 8/30/2018 at 12:41 PM, dominicansoul said:

nevermind, I'm just not gonna say anything about this anymore.  the whole entire thing makes me sick and I feel like people complaining about their loss of Faith just make it worse..

 

laters, Phatmass...

I'm definitely not losing my faith. I've believed in God my entire life. My faith is in God not some institution or religion. I didn't really before but now I refuse to put Popes, Cardinals, Bishops, or Priests on some pedistool. The same with Pastors, Preachers ect I'm all but through with religion at this point. I'm still a practicing Catholic but pure religion is helping the widow and visiting those in Prison. That's what the Bible says at least. My entire life religion has proven itself and over again to be a hypocrital system/peope that props itself up and uses that platform to present itself as perfect at all costs while judging others and casting stones. This is often how religious people act and come across. And usually the ones doing that are always hiding a bunch of stuff in their own closet. Been guilty myself as well. Thank God you don't need religion to know him. At least not the religion I desribed above. 

Edited September 2, 2018 by Guest

[Guest]

I am really hoping that the following will not come across to you as patronizing and condescending.  Such is not my intention one little bit.  I admire you, Josh, for speaking out your particular truth and viewpoint quite fearlessly.  In my own journey too, I searched for truth and it was because that was indeed my search, I eventually found Truth, or rather He found me and led me along a way that is His Way.

Your previous post came across to me as rationalising a decision you have made and as with all things, I can be wrong.  It sounds as if that which now fills you with disgust and rejection was something that you had previously embraced - and perhaps that was your mistake.   You are now disillusioned and that is a jolly good thing - not at all good to have illusions about anything.  And it can be really detrimental to have illusions about leaders.  Leaders and leadership are two entirely different things.  Leaders are the human element of leadership which is a sound and necessary role in many facets of human life.  Our priesthood and hierarchy, leadership, are necessary and holy roles, but the human beings who are priests and hierarchy, leadership, are not necessarily good at all, we can only hope and pray they are and will be in the future.  It is not the only thing we can do, it is the BEST THING we can do.

We have now discovered that our Church probably needs a radical cleansing of priests and hierarchy, our leadership.  We can only hope and pray that those who fill those roles will be good and holy human beings once, that is, Jesus has cleansed His Church - and He has told us "the gates of Hell will not prevail".

A few Sundays back  we heard about Jesus stating "unless you eat My Flesh and drink My Blood you will not have life in you".  People were so shocked at this they walked away along with some disciples.  So Jesus turns to His apostles and asks: "Will you also go?"

As Catholics abandon their Catholicism in practice because of this shocking abuse crisis, I can almost hear, I think, Jesus asking "Will you also go?"   

Putting faith and trust totally in human beings can be a very big mistake, a huge mistake.  Only The Lord deserves and is worthy of total faith and trust.  And if I want to know what He, Jesus, is about - I only need read the Gospels, letters and the Old Testament.

In this morning's Morning Prayer:

Quote

 

Psalm 117 (118) In my time of trial I called out to the Lord:  he listened, and led me to freedom.

The Lord is with me,  I will fear nothing that man can do. The Lord, my help, is with me,

  and I shall look down upon my enemies.

It is good to seek shelter in the Lord,  better than to trust in men.

 

If you still have faith in God is that at once faith in Jesus?  Jesus was a faithful Jew and attended synagogue and the temple when required. However, He certainly was not blind to the failures of leadership in His religion - as we know.  He was loudly critical of them and called them dreadful names.  

"Take up your cross and follow Me" and you are completely correct I think, Josh, that true religion is not ONLY about attending Mass and following the rules and regulations.  True Catholic Faith and practice will change us in a radical manner - a total about face "I will take your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh" (from the Reading at Morning Prayer today).

2 hours ago, Josh said:

helping the widow and visiting those in Prison. That's what the Bible says

Spot on in my book!  Keep on keeping on, Josh, The Church needs members who will speak up and point out error and wrongs and especially in our day at this time.  We are anointed as priests, kings and prophets - and prophecy is really about pointing out error and calling people back to truth....less than it is about telling the future.

It is only these terrible crimes that are making headlines in the media - we are saturated with them almost so it seems there is nothing else in Catholicism but crime and cover up.  It is easy to forget that the majority of our priests and hierarchy, leadership, are good, devoted and holy people - hard and concerned workers in their vocations.

I believe that Jesus is cleansing His Church and it is going to take time, perhaps much time. 

[Guest]

 

28 minutes ago, BarbaraTherese said:

I am really hoping that the following will not come across to you as patronizing and condescending.  Such is not my intention one little bit.  I admire you, Josh, for speaking out your particular truth and viewpoint quite fearlessly.  In my own journey too, I searched for truth and it was because that was indeed my search, I eventually found Truth, or rather He found me and led me along a way that is His Way.

Your previous post came across to me as rationalising a decision you have made and as with all things, I can be wrong.  It sounds as if that which now fills you with disgust and rejection was something that you had previously embraced - and perhaps that was your mistake.   You are now disillusioned and that is a jolly good thing - not at all good to have illusions about anything.  And it can be really detrimental to have illusions about leaders.  Leaders and leadership are two entirely different things.  Leaders are the human element of leadership which is a sound and necessary role in many facets of human life.  Our priesthood and hierarchy, leadership, are necessary and holy roles, but the human beings who are priests and hierarchy, leadership, are not necessarily good at all, we can only hope and pray they are and will be in the future.  It is not the only thing we can do, it is the BEST THING we can do.

We have now discovered that our Church probably needs a radical cleansing of priests and hierarchy, our leadership.  We can only hope and pray that those who fill those roles will be good and holy human beings once, that is, Jesus has cleansed His Church - and He has told us "the gates of Hell will not prevail".

A few Sundays back  we heard about Jesus stating "unless you eat My Flesh and drink My Blood you will not have life in you".  People were so shocked at this they walked away along with some disciples.  So Jesus turns to His apostles and asks: "Will you also go?"

As Catholics abandon their Catholicism in practice because of this shocking abuse crisis, I can almost hear, I think, Jesus asking "Will you also go?"   

Putting faith and trust totally in human beings can be a very big mistake, a huge mistake.  Only The Lord deserves and is worthy of total faith and trust.  And if I want to know what He, Jesus, is about - I only need read the Gospels, letters and the Old Testament.

In this morning's Morning Prayer:

If you still have faith in God is that at once faith in Jesus?  Jesus was a faithful Jew and attended synagogue and the temple when required. However, He certainly was not blind to the failures of leadership in His religion - as we know.  He was loudly critical of them and called them dreadful names.  

"Take up your cross and follow Me" and you are completely correct I think, Josh, that true religion is not ONLY about attending Mass and following the rules and regulations.  True Catholic Faith and practice will change us in a radical manner - a total about face "I will take your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh" (from the Reading at Morning Prayer today).

Spot on in my book!  Keep on keeping on, Josh, The Church needs members who will speak up and point out error and wrongs and especially in our day at this time.  We are anointed as priests, kings and prophets - and prophecy is really about pointing out error and calling people back to truth....less than it is about telling the future.

It is only these terrible crimes that are making headlines in the media - we are saturated with them almost so it seems there is nothing else in Catholicism but crime and cover up.  It is easy to forget that the majority of our priests and hierarchy, leadership, are good, devoted and holy people - hard and concerned workers in their vocations.

I believe that Jesus is cleansing His Church and it is going to take time, perhaps much time. 

Like I said I'm still a practicing Catholic. Going to Mass tommorow. Despite what Peace said "That I've been done and this is my excuse to leave" I go to Mass every weekend and on days of Obligation. All I'm saying is I'm completely done with the religious aspect of being Catholic or Christian. I've already been done with that aspect for awhile now but this is the nail in the coffin. I can't even put into words to describe what I mean by being done with the religious aspect of being Catholic but in my mind I picture it clearly. I know we are called to be Holy. I will try to do that but being Holy and religious are not synonymous. I think mistakenly a lot of the time people think they are.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Guest

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Josh said:

 

Like I said I'm still a practicing Catholic. Going to Mass tommorow. Despite what Peace said "That I've been done and this is my excuse to leave" I go to Mass every weekend and on days of Obligation. All I'm saying is I'm completely done with the religious aspect of being Catholic or Christian. I've already been done with that aspect for awhile now but this is the nail in the coffin. I can't even put into words to describe what I mean by being done with the religious aspect of being Catholic but in my mind I picture it clearly. I know we are called to be Holy. I will try to do that but being Holy and religious are not synonymous. I think mistakenly a lot of the time people think they are.

Good Josh.  I think you are searching for Truth and in the searching Truth will find you.  It is not a vertical journey straight to Truth - it can be a  quite windy, even horizontal,  confusing type of road.  It is a road we must all travel always and even in Heaven,we  will still not fully know God, Who Is Truth.

I went through a stage many years ago now where I felt I could no longer 'be' Catholic nor even Christian as it was commonly understood.  I was in a doldrum no longer knowing what I did or did not believe and because these were so integral to me, I think it was an identity crisis too of some kind.  What eventually happened for me is that it was my understanding of what Catholicism and Christianity is REALLY all about needed to change.  It did.  It took time and journeying.  I needed to know my own reasons for being Catholic and Christian and what these mean for me in the day to day - not adopt the reasons and meanings of others dictating to me because I had those people on a pedestal and as knowing better than me.   I could not live up to their standards and when I was honest with myself, I did not even want to do so.........then I began to move out of the doldrum stage.

As St Teresa of Avila said "It is good and useful to have gone astray so as to acquire experience".

I think probably a lot of us are disillusioned with our leadership and related crisis - even because of this huge shock to us all to begin to question much even, rather than be content to blindly follow - and blindly following is not a good way in life either.  For one only, I cannot share what I believe if I do not know why I believe what I believe.  And it is good to loose life's illusions and search for what is real and True in life.  To have our eyes open and aware rather than blind following.   This crisis is a wakeup call to all - a personal crisis for all Catholics especially.   I know what you mean about 'seeing' something in your own mind but not finding the words to share what you see.

There is no greater blessing nor gift, means of sanctification and holiness, than The Mass and Holy Communion.  

Remember me and all please, this terrible time of crisis and its victims and perpetrators, at Mass and Holy Communion - I will be remembering you.

Since you still believe in God, Josh, and go to Mass (and I hope Holy Communion too) ask Him to lead you to Truth...............if you don't ask Him already.  I suspect that you do.

[Ash Wednesday]

I think there appears to have been some misunderstanding, as Josh had posted a quote from the article written by Damon Linker.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Ash Wednesday said:

I think there appears to have been some misunderstanding, as Josh had posted a quote from the article written by Damon Linker.

Yeah I accidentally didn't put quotation marks on the quote. I really enjoyed the article. A Catholic shared it on my Facebook newsfeed.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Guest

[Ash Wednesday]

I was going to go on a long droning talk about this yet again, but I decided I was pretty boring. Never mind.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Ash Wednesday
I'm actually boring.

[Peace]

14 hours ago, Josh said:

Like I said I'm still a practicing Catholic. Going to Mass tommorow. Despite what Peace said "That I've been done and this is my excuse to leave" I go to Mass every weekend and on days of Obligation. All I'm saying is I'm completely done with the religious aspect of being Catholic or Christian. I've already been done with that aspect for awhile now but this is the nail in the coffin. I can't even put into words to describe what I mean by being done with the religious aspect of being Catholic but in my mind I picture it clearly. I know we are called to be Holy. I will try to do that but being Holy and religious are not synonymous. I think mistakenly a lot of the time people think they are.

Yes, I thought those were your original words because you did not use the quote function. 

As for not not being religious, it is not clear what you mean by that in a practical manner, but Catholicism is a religion. One cannot be Catholic without being religious. Our faith requires religious devotion, and that is part of being holy.

I really don't mean to be a jerk about all of this. All of this sexual abuse stuff is discouraging to me as well. There are plenty of times when I get frustrated and start to think "All of this Catholic stuff is BS". But we can't allow external factors to stop us from doing what we should be doing. We have to keep having faith.

Many people here have written to the effect that they believe that this is much the work of Satan. If we allow those abuses to weaken our faith or religious devotion, then his mission has been accomplished.

[Seven77]

16 hours ago, Josh said:

 

Like I said I'm still a practicing Catholic. Going to Mass tommorow. Despite what Peace said "That I've been done and this is my excuse to leave" I go to Mass every weekend and on days of Obligation. All I'm saying is I'm completely done with the religious aspect of being Catholic or Christian. I've already been done with that aspect for awhile now but this is the nail in the coffin. I can't even put into words to describe what I mean by being done with the religious aspect of being Catholic but in my mind I picture it clearly. I know we are called to be Holy. I will try to do that but being Holy and religious are not synonymous. I think mistakenly a lot of the time people think they are.

What does holiness mean for you? How is it different than being "religious"? I don't know what you think it means.

I'm saying this to myself as i say this to you, please read carefully and thoughtfully.:

It’s decision time, dude. What are you doing about the corruption besides reading about it and lamenting? If you hate the evil that you see around you, rise above it by being holy. I'm not just saying empty words, I mean it. I'm not overlooking the evil, believe me. I'm saying this because of it. By your baptism you are a member of the mystical body of Christ. If another member is rotting away because of sin, you can help make up by  your cooperation with God's grace. Think about white blood cells… That's you. 

To me, holiness is about transformation into Christ. Yeah, yeah, I'm a vile sinner, etc. That ain't an excuse. I'm tired of excuses. Ish is real.

I'm called to be transformed into Christ. Holiness is about doing everything in, with, and through Jesus Christ, in the power of the Holy Spirit. Not by your own strength and power. But trying, cooperating,  doing everything you can to be holy. And it's not something you just do when you feel like it. Always. And that means getting rid of everything that gets in your way. What are you putting in your ears, in your mind, in your hands, in your eyes?

Don't think for a minute that because your sins are of a different order that you are somehow exempt from radical holiness. Put that ish away. Don’t underestimate yourself. Jesus is calling you.

 

[Guest]

Coincidently tonight at Mass the reading was the passage about religion that is undefiled and pure is helping the widow and staying unstained from the world. The Homily was exactly about what I was stating above. How being religious doesn't necessarily equate to Holiness. And that Jesus didn't come to start a religion. These were the Priest's exact words.

@Seven77 you ask me what being Holy is to me? I would say it's keeping God's commandments and helping the poor. You can be religious and do this. You can also not be religious and do this. And then the worst of the 3 is you can be religious and pretend to do this. I have no desire to be seen or known as someone religious. Especially after this whole mess again. I don't need people to see me and think oh he's so religious or Catholic. As it is right now I'm embarrassed to have anyone even know I'm Catholic. But if they do know I'm Catholic I'm going to be sure they view me as a wretched sinner and someone who knows how desperately I need God's grace and forgiveness. I have no desire to have people think I got it all together.

The reason we are in the situation we are in now is because over and over again the Church and it's leadership valued it's reputation and appearing perfect to everyone over humbleness and admitting it's faults. They wanted the world to view them as having it all together. And then it became obvious the Church didn't have it all together. But the blind leaders were still to dense to realize that everyone was already on to them and knew the truth. They still tried to sell this lie and try to appear perfect to everyone. Then this recent stuff happens. And guess what? No one cares. This is all only big talk in Catholic Circles. No one outside of the Church is suprised or cares. None of my non Catholic Facebook friends are even mentioning this. Maybe a couple but most are not even giving it any mind. The same with real life people I interact with. This is not news to them. All it is to them is a religion trying to hide all it's really sick faults and not take action while trying to convince everyone else they have it all together and that people should look up to them and follow their example in life. Except no one is fooled. And now instead of being angry at the religion it's just sad and pathetic to people.

Edited September 3, 2018 by Guest

[Guest]

Some dirty little secrets followed Archbishop Raymond Burke from Wisconsin to St. Louis

by Malcolm Gay

https://www.riverfronttimes.com/stlouis/immaculate-deception/Content?oid=2461663

[Seven77]

16 hours ago, Josh said:

Coincidently tonight at Mass the reading was the passage about religion that is undefiled and pure is helping the widow and staying unstained from the world. The Homily was exactly about what I was stating above. How being religious doesn't necessarily equate to Holiness. And that Jesus didn't come to start a religion. These were the Priest's exact words.

@Seven77 you ask me what being Holy is to me? I would say it's keeping God's commandments and helping the poor. You can be religious and do this. You can also not be religious and do this. And then the worst of the 3 is you can be religious and pretend to do this. I have no desire to be seen or known as someone religious. Especially after this whole mess again. I don't need people to see me and think oh he's so religious or Catholic. As it is right now I'm embarrassed to have anyone even know I'm Catholic. But if they do know I'm Catholic I'm going to be sure they view me as a wretched sinner and someone who knows how desperately I need God's grace and forgiveness. I have no desire to have people think I got it all together.

The reason we are in the situation we are in now is because over and over again the Church and it's leadership valued it's reputation and appearing perfect to everyone over humbleness and admitting it's faults. They wanted the world to view them as having it all together. And then it became obvious the Church didn't have it all together. But the blind leaders were still to dense to realize that everyone was already on to them and knew the truth. They still tried to sell this lie and try to appear perfect to everyone. Then this recent stuff happens. And guess what? No one cares. This is all only big talk in Catholic Circles. No one outside of the Church is suprised or cares. None of my non Catholic Facebook friends are even mentioning this. Maybe a couple but most are not even giving it any mind. The same with real life people I interact with. This is not news to them. All it is to them is a religion trying to hide all it's really sick faults and not take action while trying to convince everyone else they have it all together and that people should look up to them and follow their example in life. Except no one is fooled. And now instead of being angry at the religion it's just sad and pathetic to people.

 I hear you but here's the thing – –

From what you just said, it seems to that you DO want to be religious in
the following sense, even if people see it or not:

"Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is  this:

to care for orphans and widows in their affliction
and to keep oneself unstained by the world."

If that is religion, that is what you are about right? So it follows
that you are religious, doesn't it?

Also, you know that place in St. Matthews’s Gospel where Jesus says,
"unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees you
will not enter the kingdom of God"? Jesus is talking about people who
are supposed to be religious, so he's pretty much saying that you have
to be, in a sense, more religious than they are. So, from that I
conclude that we are supposed to be more religious than those say things
but don't do them. We are supposed to more religious than those people
who come off as religious but are really not according to the definition
that James gives in his Epistle.

And it doesn't matter what people think. If they think you're all
religious and Catholic or not. Who cares. What matters is what you are
in the sight of Almighty God and nothing more.