Coronavirus

[jsarroforum3]

If every human on earth wore a facemask and followed proper health guidelines and stayed home as much as reasonably possible, we can crush this virus within three weeks. We need cooperation.

[elizabeth09]

I agree.  Its not fair that we are doing our part, and they are not.  Its almost always the same people who don`t follow the guidelines.  They are there for everyone to follow

[Ash Wednesday]

The pandemic has been a weird time for me. Normally I side with "conservatives" on matters like morals or religious liberty and the like, but on the issues of things like herd immunity, social distancing or wearing a mask, I just can't side with the ones that refuse to wear masks or advocate herd immunity without tangible proof that it is a viable option. It kills me to see Americans suddenly thinking they should be like Sweden when they've verbally crapped on the country or known nothing about them for decades otherwise, and disregard all other cultural and social differences, such as population density and differences in lifestyles and health care systems. I'm married to a Swede so I would know. 

I've been working from home but will be returning to the office with a mask after the next week. People also resisted "the rules" and safety precautions during the Spanish flu. Science and history was not on their side.

[tinytherese]

I don't understand why some people are refusing to wear masks and why there are even those who think that COVID is a hoax. Then you've got people proposing cures for it that obviously don't work and some fall for them.

I've even heard about those who post videos of themselves doing things that'll spread the virus because they think it's funny or whatever. It's called the Corona Challenge. People do things like lick public toilet seats. Some at stores have claimed to have the virus and coughed on produce and or employees.

[LittleWaySoul]

5 minutes ago, tinytherese said:

I don't understand why some people are refusing to wear masks and why there are even those who think that COVID is a hoax. Then you've got people proposing cures for it that obviously don't work and some fall for them.

I've even heard about those who post videos of themselves doing things that'll spread the virus because they think it's funny or whatever. It's called the Corona Challenge. People do things like lick public toilet seats. Some at stores have claimed to have the virus and coughed on produce and or employees.

I heard about things like this. I think law enforcement are treating things like coughing on produce in grocery stores as very serious crimes (I think I saw the word “terrorism” somewhere). Just crazy to think about people being so careless and flagrant in their disregard for others.

[ardillacid]

On 7/16/2020 at 1:54 AM, jsarroforum3 said:

If every human on earth wore a facemask and followed proper health guidelines and stayed home as much as reasonably possible, we can crush this virus within three weeks. We need cooperation.

What's the average age of death from the ro?

[elizabeth09]

On 7/26/2020 at 8:14 PM, tinytherese said:

I don't understand why some people are refusing to wear masks and why there are even those who think that COVID is a hoax. Then you've got people proposing cures for it that obviously don't work and some fall for them.

I've even heard about those who post videos of themselves doing things that'll spread the virus because they think it's funny or whatever. It's called the Corona Challenge. People do things like lick public toilet seats. Some at stores have claimed to have the virus and coughed on produce and or employees.

I don`t know how people can think this is a hoax.  My family and I say if the Churches and the casinos are agree on something, this its not a hoax.  The whole world was in shut down for awhile.  Even the Holy Father said a prayer for all the world to be safe and healthy.  And he was with only one person at the time.  Maybe two max.  

[Anomaly]

On 7/16/2020 at 1:54 AM, jsarroforum3 said:

If every human on earth wore a facemask and followed proper health guidelines and stayed home as much as reasonably possible, we can crush this virus within three weeks. We need cooperation.

How do you think a mask would “crush” the virus?    It won’t.   

Wearing a mask only slows the rate of spread/infections.  The hope is to have the number of sick low enough for the medical infrastructure to treat and care for them.    C-19 is too widespread and infectious to ever eradicate.  Nor is it likely a vaccine will be 100%.   Is the regular flu eradicated?   

Wear a mask.   Practice proper hygiene.    But be realistic. 

We have to have jobs to have a functional economy and healthy society.

 

On 7/28/2020 at 7:51 AM, ardillacid said:

What's the average age of death from the ro?

I’m clueless why age is relevant. Why?

[Didacus]

If the tenants of the Church was followed perfectly cpncerning sexuality, there would be no STDs in the world.

 

[tinytherese]

14 hours ago, Didacus said:

If the tenants of the Church was followed perfectly cpncerning sexuality, there would be no STDs in the world.

 

What does that have to do with the topic?

[Aloysius]

On 7/29/2020 at 11:25 PM, Anomaly said:

 

I’m clueless why age is relevant. Why?

Well, if the average age of death is as high or higher than average life expectancy in a society, I think there's something relevant about that fact.  It's certainly not an argument for doing nothing, but it is absolutely relevant when deciding the balancing act we need to make--which should be, as you say, trying to act smartly to keep the healthcare system from being overwhelmed but doing our best to continue society functioning for as much of the population as we can.  Efforts should certainly be made to protect the elderly, absolutely, but the limiting factor on those efforts I do think makes sense to be informed by the average age the virus is killing people at.

This does not mean that elderly people are less valuable, what it does mean is that death comes for us all, and death in old age is expected, natural, and unavoidable.  To make an absurd example, age would be relevant if a disease was spreading through society and the average age of death was 105 years old--there'd be a different calculus to make in terms of the extent of the measures we would want to take, no?

On the other extreme, if the average age of death was 11 years old, I think way more extreme measures than those we're taking now would be justified.

Am I wrong for thinking there's some logic to that?

[Anomaly]

Maybe I’m missing something. 

What is a possible practical application of the age factor in our  current situation?

I can’t seem to see beyond a devaluation of a person, based on their advanced age.  I do get being attentive to children, based on their inability to be independently care for themselves. 

Min a sense, I see it as going down the same rabbit hole for abortion, claiming an embryo is not defined as a person for various reasons.  Old persons have shot their wad and lived enough life.   Society does not need them. 

[Aloysius]

The point is every action we take as a society will have negative consequences, and smart policy has to think about balancing those consequences.  We have upticks in suicides, domestic abuse, and an economic crash that if it doesn't recover (there is no guarantee that it will, instead of a V shaped recovery I've hear the suggestion we might see a "K" shaped recovery where the well-off end up going up while the less well off end up going down further) could destroy many lives in significant ways that may even have generational impacts.  those are the problems for wealthy countries, in other parts of the world the increase in child starvation and malnutrition as a result of some of the measures being taken is staggering and heartbreaking, the UN has suggested about 10,000 more children a month are succumbing to malnutrition related to measures being taken.   Those are real consequences to some of the actions being taken to avoid the virus.

If the average age of death of the virus was 105 years old, I think it'd be uncontroversial to say those above consequences are not worth it.  Not because a 105 year old person is not valuable, but because we should not be so arrogant to believe we can stave off death forever, a certain humility before the inevitability of death in old age would be warranted.

Now if the average age of death was 11 years old, I'd say we should shut down even more--the risk of those things and even more would be way more acceptable, on balance.

How is that a controversial thing to say?  It is not saying any older person is less valuable--it is saying our society is not omnipotent, and we have to balance what bad things will happen and try to minimize them, and at some point and to some degree accept the inevitability of death in old age when we're deciding what other negative consequences we're going to be causing to try to avoid it.  people who are old WILL die at some point, that's just a fact of life.  if people are dying at or above the average life expectancy in a society, that should be more acceptable than people who die below a given life expectancy, is that so wrong to think?

Again, I'm not saying do nothing, there are definitely plenty of measures that are worthwhile here (and on the practical side I think we probably agree, what you said about not actually eradicating the virus but just making sure not to overwhelm the healthcare system is the realistic goal here IMO as well) but there's a certain hubris is assuming we just have the power to save everybody, and there's a certain grace and humility in accepting that there is a certain life expectancy and, while everything reasonable should be done to try to preserve life at every age, there is a point at which the age of the people dying does have some relevance to the extent of the response that would be justified because of the other negative consequences that might happen as a result of various other measures that would be taken.

oh, and yeah, wear masks.  I don't see any good reason not to.  there aren't going to result in crushing the virus in three weeks, but there's also no good reason not to do it.

[adoro.te.devote]

I feel like everyone followed the rules, this would all end sooner than later. I'm still unable to go to church because of this virus and I just feel like if this had been dealt with differently, (for instance restricting travel from the beginning), things would have been better now. A family member has lost his job because of covid and not to mention all the people who are vulnerable and could still get sick. The advantage of wearing masks is that if you are infectious, the viruses stay inside your mask - so you're less likely to infect others. 

[tinytherese]

The priests and staff at my parish and our sister parish were exposed to a positive case of Covid, so they're being quarantined. There's not going to be any mass for awhile. I'll have to watch another recorded mass. Please pray for them.

Some people have gotten upset with a priest at the parish that some of my family members attend. He's elderly and has health conditions that make him especially vulnerable. People grumble about how careful he's being. How can they not care about his safety?

My brother had a much delayed high school graduation party since some restrictions have been lifted. There were at least 50 people there at the place that was reserved. I didn't think it was a good idea, but kept my mouth shut because I know that it would've gotten ugly if I spoke up. I live with my parents and brother so I couldn't get away with not going. Some people masked, masks were available at the entrance, and there was hand sanitizer. Please pray that no one got infected.

I noticed a toddler put her mouth on a chair and sucked on it. I cleaned it up after she left. I just don't trust little kids in day cares and schools to not do stuff like that. I have no idea what can be done.

[chrysostom]

1 minute ago, tinytherese said:

The priests and staff at my parish and our sister parish were exposed to a positive case of Covid, so they're being quarantined. There's not going to be any mass for awhile. I'll have to watch another recorded mass. Please pray for them.

Some people have gotten upset with a priest at the parish that some of my family members attend. He's elderly and has health conditions that make him especially vulnerable. People grumble about how careful he's being. How can they not care about his safety?

My brother had a much delayed high school graduation party since some restrictions have been lifted. There were at least 50 people there at the place that was reserved. I didn't think it was a good idea, but kept my mouth shut because I know that it would've gotten ugly if I spoke up. I live with my parents and brother so I couldn't get away with not going. Some people masked, masks were available at the entrance, and there was hand sanitizer. Please pray that no one got infected.

I noticed a toddler put her mouth on a chair and sucked on it. I cleaned it up after she left. I just don't trust little kids in day cares and schools to not do stuff like that. I have no idea what can be done.

The 'rona generally spreads in the air, we think, and lots of evidence shows children, especially young children, are neither major sufferers nor vectors of the disease.

[elizabeth09]

I feel for the school who have to make sure that the children are away from their friends.  They are to little to understand what is happen now and why can`t they hug their friends.  Not only that, but some may live their with their grandparents as well. 

[fides' Jack]

On 8/1/2020 at 11:19 AM, adoro.te.devote said:

The advantage of wearing masks is that if you are infectious, the viruses stay inside your mask - so you're less likely to infect others. 

That's been proven false.  Even the N95-certified masks don't do much about viruses.  A bandana does absolutely nothing, and multiple ply cloth masks don't do enough to keep anyone you're around safe from your germs.

On 7/29/2020 at 10:55 AM, Anomaly said:

Nor is it likely a vaccine will be 100%.   Is the regular flu eradicated?

It's not just unlikely, it would be impossible for a vaccine to a virus to be 100% effective.

Not only is the regular flu not eradicated, but the annual flu shot can be anywhere from 7% to 40% effective.  40% being the extreme best.

[fides' Jack]

On 7/26/2020 at 7:14 PM, tinytherese said:

I don't understand why some people are refusing to wear masks and why there are even those who think that COVID is a hoax. Then you've got people proposing cures for it that obviously don't work and some fall for them.

I can't speak for others, but here are my reasons for refusing to wear a face mask.

I believe they are actually evil (see the main reason below*).  I believe it is sinful to wear one, unless you are a medical professional and currently working in an environment that a medical mask would have been used normally, anyway, or if you are actively attending someone who is older and has other bad conditions.

At every single turn since the start of this thing, way back in January/February, the decisions made by the various state and local governments, which were based on advice from Anthony Fauci, have been wrong.  We know that now, because just about everything that Fauci has said has been wrong, since the very beginning.  It's not that more has been wrong than right, it's that almost every single thing has been wrong.

Close to the beginning, there were a number of people saying online, "this thing is about the same as the flu", and those people were immediately silenced as much as social media and mass media can do.  Well, it turns out they were right all along.  If you're under 70, the annual flu is more dangerous than COVID-19.  If you're over 70, COVID-19 is worse.

Health reasons aside (and we can debate the efficacy of masks if anyone really wants to), there are serious moral implications at play.  Did anyone else here find it odd that the mass media doesn't care if you social distance as long as you are rioting?  They commend the murder, rape, and destroying of hundreds of millions of dollars of property, while bashing anyone for being conservative.  The BLM movement is fundamentally tied to everything going on right now.

*To wear a mask right now is to submit to an ever-growing state that is actively seeking to promote sinfulness on every stage.  I believe wearing a face mask right now is a mark of submission to satan.  I don't think it is the mark of the beast, but I think it's a precursor to the mark of the beast.  Just remember this: Catholic Tradition has always maintained that the mark of the beast would be something that even the majority of faithful Catholics wouldn't understand at the time.  They would see it as necessary.  Nothing in history has ever fulfilled this description as much as the current obsession with face masks (otherwise known as muzzles).  

There are any one of a number of conditions that would have been enough to convince me to wear a mask.  If dissenters were not immediately silenced, for instance, or if it wasn't accompanied by an obviously evil movement like BLM, or if the mass media wasn't supporting BLM while pushing down conservatives, or if any manner of freedom of choice was present during all of this (such as churches not being shut down, or hydroxochloroquine not being pulled off of shelves for those who want the freedom to try it for themselves, or if religious exemptions were put in place for those who feel as I do).  If there were actually millions of people dying in the US, I'd be more supportive.  But from EVERY SINGLE ANGLE, it's becoming more and more clear that this is all based on lies and suppression of free choice and promotion of sin.

From a Catholic standpoint, the health of the soul trumps health of the body every time.  So even if it were a matter of health (which I don't believe), the other factors at play would outweigh those considerations.  I can't act in opposition to my conscience, and nobody can ask me to.  Not the pope, not my bishop or my pastor, and certainly not the government.

That's why I refuse to wear a face mask.

[Anastasia]

fides' Jack

While I do not agree with you on every point of your post (for instance, I am not convinced that a good quality mask worn by an infected person does not prevent virus from spreading), I agree with you in general.

There is a lack of coherence in this story with a virus and it is very easy to see, as you pointed our re: protesting crowds and social distancing. It is well-known now that people who are infected can feel totally fine, asymptomatic so there is no way not to infect each other unless everyone is locked in a single cell permanently. 

The major cognitive dissonance I have though (as I wrote about that here and also on my website in the essay 'Streaming Christ')  is the fact that the churches agreed with their status of "non essential" and shut up or shut down wile the take away, retails and bottle shops were open. That fact passed almost unnoticed yet it was, essential, the Church saying "yes, we are non-essential and Christ is non-essential". For all my life (partly spent in the anti-Christian state) I have known that I always can receive communion, from a regular of a catacomb priest, no matter what was going on. Then I came to "a free Western country" and find that I cannot receive communion thanks to the sanitary restrictions and the cowardice of the Church. It is very ironical.