Sinner Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 It has been postulated that many liturgical abuses have been promulgated by "liberal catholics" who want women and married men in the priesthood, an increased role/authority for laity, advancement of the homosexual position, a decreased importance of the eucharist (reduction to a symbol of Christ's Body and Blood), etc. Could it be that we have been slowly duped by taking Communion in the hand, female altar servers, "Eucharistic Ministers" giving Communion and Blessings, Communion at the back of the Church, Communion in less than precious containers, "Homilies" by laity, etc., etc., etc.? Or have all of these things just "happened" independently of each other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Since I'm a teenager I haven't really noticed the liberalization. If I look back I can see that there have been radical changes before my birth, but I'm not so sure its a conspiracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurkeFan Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 I'd say that it's possible, maybe even more than possible, but I'd stop short of saying that there's a bonafide conspiracy or organized, concerted effort. I think it's just a bunch of angry people who have a common direction but push and shove at their own pace to their own rhythm. I wouldn't give it the credit of being organized. I think that if it was organized, then it would not be such a faltering movement. Anyhow, the demonic is, I think, never organized, for chaos is a demonic principle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurkeFan Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 [quote name='crusader1234' date='Jul 4 2004, 10:11 PM'] Since I'm a teenager I haven't really noticed the liberalization. If I look back I can see that there have been radical changes before my birth, but I'm not so sure its a conspiracy. [/quote] I don't know how it is up in Canada, but there are definite attempts that I have seen here, especially in my Jesuit high school and college, and assorted parishes in the Archdiocese of Detroit. One parish right near where I live in Michigan introduced a number of liturgical changes which the priest claimed were orthodox and should have already been implimented... such as standing at the consecration... never kneeling during Mass, etc. There are those still carrying the liberal Catholic bastion at my college, especially the Theology department, led by Ron Modras, who absolutely hates JPII and thinks he's the "worst pope ever." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Well, I do know of Call to Action and various groups like Dignity and Catholics for a Free Choice, but I don't know how co-ordinated their activities are. What seems to be happening to me is that the "children of the 60s" have achived tenure and positions of influence in the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Yes, it's happening, but they will fail... the heretics always loose, they're trying to go against God... Jesus promised it wouldn't be overcome. I believe Christ... unlike the liberals. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archbishop 10-K Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 There IS a liberal movement, but as ironmonk said, it will eventually fail. It's been said many times, and I won't hestitate to say it again, "the gates of hell shall not prevail against it [the Church." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 I don't know about concentrated conspiracy, but there are definately people/groups out there trying their darndest to liberalize and change the Church to what they want (women priests, gay marriage, married priests, teachings on abortion and contraception changed, etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader_4 Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 I wouldnt say that things that the Church has being doing recently are "part of a conspiracy" i.e. Female Altar servers, or other such matters. However outside of the Church in a sense definatly the media, certain UN organizations and even countries have it in for the Vatican. To them the first thing they would love to see is the Vatican get annhilated or dissapear of the face of the map because it is only the Vatican in many cases that presents an alternative to this Culture of Death. So outside there Church i think there are take a look at CFFC if you dont believe me. (Catholics For a Free Choice = Evil) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 My Jesuit highschool and my Church (up here in good ole Canada) are fairly conservative. My highschool is a little more liberal on 'dirty dancing' than you might expect, but its conservative in most other respects. My Church is very conservative in comparison with the examples of liberal Churches here on PM, but we do have female alterservers and acolytes. Maybe that is too liberal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurkeFan Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 (edited) [quote name='crusader1234' date='Jul 4 2004, 11:34 PM'] My Jesuit highschool and my Church (up here in good ole Canada) are fairly conservative. My highschool is a little more liberal on 'dirty dancing' than you might expect, but its conservative in most other respects. My Church is very conservative in comparison with the examples of liberal Churches here on PM, but we do have female alterservers and acolytes. Maybe that is too liberal? [/quote] My high school was wacky in theology. For example, I was taught in a Theology course that Jesus had literal, biological brothers and sisters. Ie, that Mary was not ever-virgin. Edit: Girl altar servers, or, as Fr. Kellers calls them, girl altar-boys, I think are not a huge threat, since the Pope seems to approve. Edited July 5, 2004 by BurkeFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Yeah our Jesuits DEFINATELY dont agree with that. One of them is sort of out there in how he preaches and dresses, but he is "kosher" theologically. I don't have any problem with a woman handing me the Eucharist or following a girl around the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 [quote name='BurkeFan' date='Jul 5 2004, 01:39 AM'] My high school was wacky in theology. For example, I was taught in a Theology course that Jesus had literal, biological brothers and sisters. Ie, that Mary was not ever-virgin. Edit: Girl altar servers, or, as Fr. Kellers calls them, girl altar-boys, I think are not a huge threat, since the Pope seems to approve. [/quote] That's heresy bro... Report it to the Bishop... then to the Archbishop... then to the Vatican. I wish Catholics were Catholic. [b]Sirach 4:28 [/b]Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you. Fight for Truth... even when the world is against you. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacobus Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Jul 4 2004, 10:43 PM'] I believe Christ... unlike the liberals. [/quote] I take offense at that. I am VERY liberal in my thought and actions. However, I belive in God and I like my Mass "clean." So yeh. As to a Conspiracy, I highly doubt it. There are some bad apples of course but a univeral conspiracy is nuts. The Church is more likly to become more orthadax with the newer priests. "Liberal Catholic Conspiracy" sounds like a Catholic Jack Chick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurkeFan Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Jul 4 2004, 11:45 PM'] That's heresy bro... Report it to the Bishop... then to the Archbishop... then to the Vatican. I wish Catholics were Catholic. [b]Sirach 4:28 [/b]Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you. Fight for Truth... even when the world is against you. God Bless, ironmonk [/quote] If my high school was in St. Louis, I'd take your advice immediately. But, it's Detroit. And, the school is under the control of the Jesuits, and when I was there, my attempts to bring the situation to light, thouogh maybe not the most tactful, were slammed down pretty quickly by the administration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now