Your Opinions On The Occult Wanted.

[ladybug]

[quote name='p0lar_bear' date='Jul 15 2004, 01:54 PM'] So Harry Potter should be banned because a few people might have a problem with it? That's just like banning alcohol because some people are alcoholics. Or banning Huck Finn because some people are so offended by the use of the n-word in the book that they can't see past it (note: I would never use the n-word, but I recognize its use as a historical reality put into a good story). Should we ban Little House on the Prairie because native Americans might be offended by a book that shows western expansion as a good thing rather than an incroachment on their land? Or Isben's A Doll's House because it challenges traditional gender roles in the home? How about King Arthur stories because they portray insest? Or The Count of Monte Cristo because the 'hero' decieves everyone, sets out to destroy people and has a concubine?

Putting reading Harry Potter on level with masturbation is simply ridiculous and makes your position less credible.

Fantasy novels (even those including references to magic) are not inherently evil. The Church has never declared them as such and never will.


Edit: Oh, and even though my parents let us read all sorts of fantasy literature, I never played with Ouija boards because I knew that while fantasy magic was ok, Ouija boards and real witchcraft was bad. [/quote]
OKAY, you guys win. I'll go buy the Harry Potter series and read it to my kids. I guess I am damaging them by not allowing them to participate in every one of the latest popular trends. Those catholic parents who worry are just too conservative and uptight. I'm sorry, please forgive me for not having the same opinion as all other catholics. HARRY POTTER HERE I COME! WOOOO HOOOOOO!

By the way, the Ouija board party I went to was catholic kids doing it, and the only one who said anything to warn me was my Pentecostal friend. But, pentecostals are heretics, so she couldn't possibly know anything. The other catholic kids were doing it, and their catholic parents were there supervising, so it must be okay right?

National Catholic Register
Catholic parents speaking about Harry Potter
[url="http://www.ncregister.com/Register_News/112801harry.htm"]http://www.ncregister.com/Register_News/112801harry.htm[/url]

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='ladybug' date='Jul 15 2004, 03:25 PM'] So, if it's wrong for some and a problem for some, then others should not openly flaunt it around us and call us uptight or mean names for standing up for our children. We should not be told we are 'uncool' or 'out of touch'.

I should be able to take my child to a night club with people getting drunk then, since we are only watching and not actually doing it ourselves.

We can go to a friends masterbation orgy as long as they conceal their bodies as they are doing it, we are only observers and are not actually participating and I can just explain to my children that the church says it's a sin and not to actually do it themselves.

Second hand smoke won't harm my child. Let's go to a smoking party with my kids.

We all played with Ouija boards as children. As long as don't touch the ouija board ourselves and I am there to explain that they are trying to contact the dead in a good way, and we are only observers at a friends house who are doing the ouija board then it will be just fun adventurous entertainment. As long as we are only watching, and not doing.

(coming from someone who got hooked on ouija from a christian friends birthday party where I was only an observer..at first) [/quote]
If we run our lives be trying not to offend someone we will have no life at all. Should I take off my crucifix as not to offend atheists? Should I hide my holy pictures as not to offend visitors to my house?
Almost everyone here is a conservative faithful Catholic, and you seem to be implying we are less than faithful becuase we enjoy HP.

I don't recall anyone calling you mean or uptight.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='ladybug' date='Jul 15 2004, 04:11 PM'] OKAY, you guys win. I'll go buy the Harry Potter series and read it to my kids. I guess I am damaging them by not allowing them to participate in every one of the latest popular trends. Those catholic parents who worry are just too conservative and uptight. I'm sorry, please forgive me for not having the same opinion as all other catholics. HARRY POTTER HERE I COME! WOOOO HOOOOOO!

By the way, the Ouija board party I went to was catholic kids doing it, and the only one who said anything to warn me was my Pentecostal friend. But, pentecostals are heretics, so she couldn't possibly know anything. The other catholic kids were doing it, and their catholic parents were there supervising, so it must be okay right?

National Catholic Register
Catholic parents speaking about Harry Potter
[url="http://www.ncregister.com/Register_News/112801harry.htm"]http://www.ncregister.com/Register_News/112801harry.htm[/url] [/quote]
I think you are missing the point.

You don't have to read HP to your kids,that is your personal opinon of the books, fine.

Don't condemn others who enjoy them.

[ladybug]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jul 15 2004, 02:17 PM'] I think you are missing the point.

You don't have to read HP to your kids,that is your personal opinon of the books, fine.

Don't condemn others who enjoy them. [/quote]
So, if I enjoy doing a ouija board, no one should condemn me either right?

Is it up to me to do the ouija board with no intervention? Do my fellow catholics have no right to say anything?

Oh yeah, I forgot. I'm NOT my brothers keeper. "Do what ye will, harm none." Whatever floats your boat. To each his own.

Edited July 15, 2004 by ladybug

[ladybug]

[quote name='XIX' date='Jul 15 2004, 01:16 PM'] But the bottom line is that it can not actually help your soul by reading it. It's not going to improve your relationship with God. The best you can hope for is a wash.

[/quote]
Exactly.

At BEST...a wash.

Middle ground - being desensetized

At worst, the child could have a tendency to turn it into something more.

I'm concerned about the latter.

It's a gamble.

I can't force anyone to not read them. I'm not judging them personally. But there is nothing wrong with making a moral judgement.

Moral judgements and being judgemental are too seperate things.

And my warnings come from love, not hate.

Just like my Pentecostal friend that said "We shouldn't do that ouija board". But I did it anyway, and she was still my friend.

She still stands out in my mind after all of the years though as someone who cared about my soul. I have to respect what she did for me, even if I didn't listen.

[ladybug]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jul 15 2004, 01:14 PM'] The Catholic movie and book reviewers liked Harry Potter. Bishop Chaput of Denver said they were fine. The are far worse books than HP out there.
My daughter who loves HP, is considering a religious vocation. [/quote]


SOME catholics movie and book reviewers gave it good reviews. Individuals said that, not the catholic church as a whole.

There are many catholic parents, priests, the Pope's chief exorcist, Michael O'Brien of EWTN that oppose it.

Just because a CATHOLIC says something does not mean it's infallible. No one has made any infallible statements.

But I think it's a good idea to take heed of the voices who use caution before jumping head first into every new trend that comes along.

If I follow the voices that oppose it, the WORST that would happen is I miss a great book and people think I'm nuts.

If I follow the voices that approve it, at best I enjoy the book, and at WORST I open a door into the occult for my children.

Let's see. People thinking I'm nuts OR opening the door for the occult. I'll take people thining I'm nuts.

Edited July 15, 2004 by ladybug

[ladybug]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Jul 15 2004, 01:20 PM'] yeah I know. it was just FYI (For Your Information)

I enjoy making myself sound smart. so sue me. :nanny:

Pax [/quote]
He He

My husband does that to me all of the time.



I said 'whatever' in fun by the way.

[Christina]

Wake up people.... this whole thing about HP is causing division amongst us.


Just because there are a few of us that don't agree with the rest of you doesn't mean we are less devout or loyal to the Church then you. You guys are acting like we are wishy washy Catholics who don't follow the Church.

Guess what? We aren't... we are just as loyal as the rest of you, but CHOOSE not to subject our children to the evils of HP. If you don't think it's evil, then that's your opinon. In the end we will all find out.

In the vary least, these are secular books/movies that do not have anything to do with our faith and will not get us to heaven.

This and the other HP topics are going no where and in my opinion all of them should be closed. We need to move on and get back to the love that I've seen all over this board.

[ladybug]

[quote name='Christina' date='Jul 15 2004, 05:05 PM'] Wake up people.... this whole thing about HP is causing division amongst us.


Just because there are a few of us that don't agree with the rest of you doesn't mean we are less devout or loyal to the Church then you. You guys are acting like we are wishy washy Catholics who don't follow the Church.

Guess what? We aren't... we are just as loyal as the rest of you, but CHOOSE not to subject our children to the evils of HP. If you don't think it's evil, then that's your opinon. In the end we will all find out.

In the vary least, these are secular books/movies that do not have anything to do with our faith and will not get us to heaven.

This and the other HP topics are going no where and in my opinion all of them should be closed. We need to move on and get back to the love that I've seen all over this board. [/quote]
I agree!

TOPIC CLOSED!

I started a new topic. List your top 5 favorite catholic books.

[cmotherofpirl]

:rotfl:

[ladybug]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jul 15 2004, 05:10 PM'] :rotfl: [/quote]


Kumbayah my lord kumbaya (or however that is spelled)

What does kumbayah mean anyway?

[cmotherofpirl]

[i]Come by here[/i] in Gullah

[ladybug]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jul 15 2004, 05:29 PM'] [i]Come by here[/i] in Gullah [/quote]
About Kumbaya
[url="http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a980911a.html"]http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a980911a.html[/url]

I like the cartoon on the page

[cmotherofpirl]

The cartoon is sinful.

[WCC_Catholic]

[quote name='p0lar_bear' date='Jul 15 2004, 09:02 AM'] Real witchcraft is bad. Reading fantasy literature, not so much. [/quote]
i agree with this practicing witchcraft is bad and reading spell books too but fantisy is just that fantisy not real

[Christina]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jul 15 2004, 06:07 PM'] The cartoon is sinful. [/quote]
Agreed.

[p0lar_bear]

[quote name='Christina' date='Jul 15 2004, 07:05 PM'] Just because there are a few of us that don't agree with the rest of you doesn't mean we are less devout or loyal to the Church then you. You guys are acting like we are wishy washy Catholics who don't follow the Church.
[/quote]
Ummm... I believe the opposite is being implied. If you don't want to read HP, fine. It's not like we are forcing you.

On the other hand, reading HP has been equated with mortal sin. And those of us who are OK with them are accused of putting ourselves and everyone who could possibly see us reading them or hear about us reading them in mortal peril.

If you don't think you or your children can read them without harm, then by all means don't read them. Just don't accuse me of mortal sin and serious scandal for reading them.

I quoted Archbishop Chaput to demonstrate that it is not the teachign of the Church that these books are evil and so those who read them are not commiting mortal sin.

[Christina]

[quote name='p0lar_bear' date='Jul 15 2004, 07:45 PM'] Ummm... I believe the opposite is being implied. If you don't want to read HP, fine. It's not like we are forcing you.

On the other hand, reading HP has been equated with mortal sin. And those of us who are OK with them are accused of putting ourselves and everyone who could possibly see us reading them or hear about us reading them in mortal peril.

If you don't think you or your children can read them without harm, then by all means don't read them. Just don't accuse me of mortal sin and serious scandal for reading them.

I quoted Archbishop Chaput to demonstrate that it is not the teachign of the Church that these books are evil and so those who read them are not commiting mortal sin. [/quote]
No where have I accused anyone of being in Mortal Sin for reading HP.

[nikkan_hanil]

Any control over spirits for any purpose is a sin. That power is reserved for God only. I personally believe in practically most the powers that many occults claim they have, but any sort of Witchcraft I think is gravely sinful. What many people don't realize is that there are millions of free floating spirits floating around the world, both good and bad, but trying to control them is not something that was intended for us. Not only Witchcraft, but any sort of spiritual control/contact with spirits outside of God's domain is mortally sinful whether it be a seance, magick ritual, or just fiddling around with a Ouija board...

Simpler terms when it comes to spirits...

You're either [i]for[/i] God, or [i]against[/i] God.

[ladybug]

[quote name='nikkan_hanil' date='Jul 15 2004, 09:32 PM'] Any control over spirits for any purpose is a sin. That power is reserved for God only. I personally believe in practically most the powers that many occults claim they have, but any sort of Witchcraft I think is gravely sinful. What many people don't realize is that there are millions of free floating spirits floating around the world, both good and bad, but trying to control them is not something that was intended for us. Not only Witchcraft, but any sort of spiritual control/contact with spirits outside of God's domain is mortally sinful whether it be a seance, magick ritual, or just fiddling around with a Ouija board...

Simpler terms when it comes to spirits...

You're either [i]for[/i] God, or [i]against[/i] God. [/quote]
It's so sad that the ouija board is also targeted at children. And no one ever told me what it was when I was little and I did it at a slumber party, and it led to wanting it more and more.

I got rid of it because I ended up with a haunted house. For real, no joke. It's NOT a toy.

I will NEVER EVER touch one again.

And tarot cards...bad news. Don't mess with them, or palm reading or any of that. Those things draw you in when you are having crisis' in faith or doubt and you are wanting proof. But they end up making you more and more lost and depressed.

Don't mess with the occult. Listen to me as a voice of experience. My catholic mom was interested in reincarnation and faeries and physic phenomena....and so I thought it was okay because she liked it and thought it was harmless, and that is what led to the ouija board. And my mother is a devout catholic lady...I think she just didn't know any better.