Feminists?

[CSLF]

[quote name='Galloglasses' Alt' post='1712912' date='Nov 28 2008, 03:17 PM']Both of you just took what was said out of context, what was said was more implying how women are being pressured into the workplace to the point where motherhood is implied in a negative fashion.[/quote]

Maybe I did read it out of context, so, just for clarity's sake -
Is it reasonable or unreasonable for a woman to apply her talents outside the home?
What roles do you see as fulfilling for women? Are there any limitations? If so, what are they?
What roles do you see as fulfilling for men? Are there any limitations for men? If so, what are they?

Thanks, hopefully this will resolve the context issue.

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1712913' date='Nov 28 2008, 03:21 PM']If women are being pressured into the work force when they would rather be stay-at-home mothers, this is because of living expenses, not because the women who [i]want[/i] to work "ruined" it for them.[/quote]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1712913' date='Nov 28 2008, 03:21 PM']If women are being pressured into the work force when they would rather be stay-at-home mothers, this is because of living expenses, not because the women who [i]want[/i] to work "ruined" it for them.[/quote]

"The world in which we now live is a world whose outlook is so distorted that we absolutize what is relative (money-making, power, success) and relativize what is absolute (truth, moral values, and God). Power, riches, fame, success, and domination are idolized; humility, chastity, modesty, self-sacrifice, and service are looked down upon as signs of weakness. This last sentence, Nietzsche's philosophy in a nutshell - the glorification of strength and the denigration of weakness - has become the shallow core of modern thought and feminist belief." - Dr. Alice Von Hildebrand

And it is true. This is why young women are pressured into the work force. Many of them do not wish to be stay-at-home mothers and wives "for the rest of their lives" because the characteristics of such a vocation and life (self-sacrifice, humility, service, obedience, etc) are seen as weakness in the eyes of the world. It has been taught that these things degrade the human person. The human person who has not achieved success, power, great money, and high education is a failure. And, as unfortunate as it is, self-proclaimed feminists have endorsed and spread this hierarchy of values that is the spirit of our time. Women have been victimized by this distortion.

The minority of women want to be mothers and wives. For the majority, it is not considered as their vocation or desire. Do the majority want this or are they coerced in to this by high-living expenses? No. Women are pressured and told that to be a mother and a wife is nothing wonderful or grand, but rather simple and weak. It was self-proclaimed feminists who support and encourage these ideas, and have been at the fore-front in the "emancipation of women" or rather the "masculinization of women."

There are many forms of feminism. However, we have seen how feminism has grown. We have witnessed and continue to witness feminism at it's full growth and radical-ness. Feminism as a movement has always sought social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men. Unfortunately as the main core of this movement has progressed (leaving behind forms of it that held truth and justice as the key points) it has unwittingly acknowledged a superiority of the male sex by wishing to become like them in all ways. It is this movement which has done the most harm to women; far more then it has done good. It is this movement that can probably be blamed as a primary reason that the majority of women spurn virginity, motherhood, and to be a wife. And it is this movement in it’s main form that has applied the pressure to those who choose motherhood and to be a wife

I don't think living costs has anything to do with it.

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote]I think though, that in order to have an authentic feminism of any kind -- be it classical or modern -- it must be a feminism informed by the teaching of the Church. No brand of feminism or no brand of feminist can be deemed authentically Catholic unless it obeys and promotes what the Catholic Church teaches about the person and role of woman. No brand of feminism can be deemed authentically Catholic unless it tries to be like the New Woman, the New Eve, the Church, exemplified in the Blessed Virgin Mary. Any other brand of feminism, however positive and however close to Church teaching, cannot be called Catholic. Unless it agrees 100% with Church teaching, it is not Catholic and Catholics should not be affiliated with it.[/quote]

Perfectly said.

[dominicansoul]

when i think of feminist, i don't think of womanhood...i guess it's 'cos there is a negative connotation to the word feminist with all the femi-nazis who first burned bras, caved in to sexual license, and fought for abortion rights...

but when you think of the word feminist in light of the Church, what comes to mind is St. Teresa Benedicta (St. Edith Stein) and all the many women who are serving the Church by living God's will to the best of their abilities...

i think of the ann arbor dominicans,
nashville dominicans,
and my mom..

perfect examples of true womanhood, feminine feminists who live(d) doing what women do best, and that is love without question, love without counting the risks and the costs...

women who love to the fullest in God...

Edited November 28, 2008 by dominicansoul

[rkwright]

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1713005' date='Nov 28 2008, 05:36 PM']"The world in which we now live is a world whose outlook is so distorted that we absolutize what is relative (money-making, power, success) and relativize what is absolute (truth, moral values, and God). Power, riches, fame, success, and domination are idolized; humility, chastity, modesty, self-sacrifice, and service are looked down upon as signs of weakness. This last sentence, Nietzsche's philosophy in a nutshell - the glorification of strength and the denigration of weakness - has become the shallow core of modern thought and feminist belief." - Dr. Alice Von Hildebrand

And it is true. This is why young women are pressured into the work force. Many of them do not wish to be stay-at-home mothers and wives "for the rest of their lives" because the characteristics of such a vocation and life (self-sacrifice, humility, service, obedience, etc) are seen as weakness in the eyes of the world. It has been taught that these things degrade the human person. The human person who has not achieved success, power, great money, and high education is a failure. And, as unfortunate as it is, self-proclaimed feminists have endorsed and spread this hierarchy of values that is the spirit of our time. Women have been victimized by this distortion.

The minority of women want to be mothers and wives. For the majority, it is not considered as their vocation or desire. Do the majority want this or are they coerced in to this by high-living expenses? No. Women are pressured and told that to be a mother and a wife is nothing wonderful or grand, but rather simple and weak. It was self-proclaimed feminists who support and encourage these ideas, and have been at the fore-front in the "emancipation of women" or rather the "masculinization of women."

There are many forms of feminism. However, we have seen how feminism has grown. We have witnessed and continue to witness feminism at it's full growth and radical-ness. Feminism as a movement has always sought social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men. Unfortunately as the main core of this movement has progressed (leaving behind forms of it that held truth and justice as the key points) it has unwittingly acknowledged a superiority of the male sex by wishing to become like them in all ways. It is this movement which has done the most harm to women; far more then it has done good. It is this movement that can probably be blamed as a primary reason that the majority of women spurn virginity, motherhood, and to be a wife. And it is this movement in it’s main form that has applied the pressure to those who choose motherhood and to be a wife

I don't think living costs has anything to do with it.[/quote]

Amazing post.

[Galloglasses' Alt]

[quote name='CSLF' post='1712997' date='Nov 28 2008, 05:18 PM']Maybe I did read it out of context, so, just for clarity's sake -
Is it reasonable or unreasonable for a woman to apply her talents outside the home?
What roles do you see as fulfilling for women? Are there any limitations? If so, what are they?
What roles do you see as fulfilling for men? Are there any limitations for men? If so, what are they?

Thanks, hopefully this will resolve the context issue. [/quote]
I have absolutely no clue why you're asking me that in relation to my last post as I was not hinting at any of those qeustions.

But i'll answer if that would do.

Is it reasonable or unreasonable for a woman to apply her talents outside the home?
Nope.

What roles do you see as fulfilling for women?
Wearing the pants of the family.

Are there any limitations?
...There are limitations to wearing the pants?

If so, what are they?
Erm, the shoes?

What roles do you see as fulfilling for men?
Keeping the roof from falling in on everyone.

Are there any limitations for men?
Duh.

If so, what are they?
No matter how hard men try it is utterly impossible for us to change the quilt covers on beds, it is something physically impossible for us to do without ripping it into shreds first. (first hand experience, or maybe I just stink at it)

[Tinkerlina]

[quote name='Galloglasses' Alt' post='1713746' date='Nov 29 2008, 01:52 PM']I have absolutely no clue why you're asking me that in relation to my last post as I was not hinting at any of those qeustions.

But i'll answer if that would do.

Is it reasonable or unreasonable for a woman to apply her talents outside the home?
Nope.[/quote]

If it is neither reasonable nor unreasonable, what is it? -Katie

[Galloglasses' Alt]

Its an question thats already obvious. If a person has the talents its more then reasonable for them to apply them where appropriate. Be it outside or inside, or both as in most cases. And this applies to both sexes. I said Nope simply to make the point that the question was unnecesary and was simply asked as some kind of challenge.

EDIT: In fact, almost all the questions I was asked there were unneccesary challenges so I did not take them seriously in my response.

Edited November 29, 2008 by Galloglasses' Alt

[picchick]

[quote name='Galloglasses' Alt' post='1712912' date='Nov 28 2008, 02:17 PM']Both of you just took what was said out of context, what was said was more implying how women are being pressured into the workplace to the point where motherhood is implied in a negative fashion.[/quote]

Who is both of you? Are you including me?
[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1713018' date='Nov 28 2008, 05:53 PM']when i think of feminist, i don't think of womanhood...i guess it's 'cos there is a negative connotation to the word feminist with all the femi-nazis who first burned bras, caved in to sexual license, and fought for abortion rights...

but when you think of the word feminist in light of the Church, what comes to mind is St. Teresa Benedicta (St. Edith Stein) and all the many women who are serving the Church by living God's will to the best of their abilities...

i think of the ann arbor dominicans,
nashville dominicans,
and my mom..

[b]perfect examples of true womanhood, feminine feminists who live(d) doing what women do best, and that is love without question, love without counting the risks and the costs...[/b]
women who love to the fullest in God...[/quote]

Oh my gosh....perfect! Although, womanhood goes beyond nuns.

You don't have to be a working woman to be a feminist.

[Tinkerlina]

[quote name='Galloglasses' Alt' post='1713955' date='Nov 29 2008, 05:00 PM']Its an question thats already obvious. If a person has the talents its more then reasonable for them to apply them where appropriate. Be it outside or inside, or both as in most cases. And this applies to both sexes. I said Nope simply to make the point that the question was unnecesary and was simply asked as some kind of challenge.

EDIT: In fact, almost all the questions I was asked there were unneccesary challenges so I did not take them seriously in my response.[/quote]

I don't think it was meant as a challenge-I think it was meant to help clarify what you were saying as you accused people of taking what you said out of context. -Katie

[Tinkerlina]

[quote name='picchick' date='Nov 29 2008, 05:10 PM' post='1713957'


Oh my gosh....perfect! Although, womanhood goes beyond nuns.

You don't have to be a working woman to be a feminist.
[/quote]

I know-as a single female and not a nun or mother, I kind of feel like I don't know where I fit into this equation. -Katie

[Apotheoun]

The Church has always honored virginity for the sake of the kingdom above all else. She has also honored motherhood, which mirrors the fruitfulness of the virgin Theotokos, and the gifts of love she gave in raising the Christ child.

[Tinkerlina]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1714022' date='Nov 29 2008, 07:45 PM']The Church has always honored virginity for the sake of the kingdom above all else. She has also honored motherhood, which mirrors the fruitfulness of the virgin Theotokos, and the gifts of love she gave in raising the Christ child.[/quote]

I know that. It just seems like single women are "forgotten" in these debates sometimes, which often center on motherhood or the religious life of nuns when talking about a woman's role in society. -Katie

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Tinkerlina' post='1714024' date='Nov 29 2008, 04:48 PM']I know that. It just seems like single women are "forgotten" in these debates sometimes, which often center on motherhood or the religious life of nuns when talking about a woman's role in society. -Katie[/quote]
Single women, like single men, are called to witness to Christ by living in virginal purity.

[Tinkerlina]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1714027' date='Nov 29 2008, 07:50 PM']Single women, like single men, are called to witness to Christ by living in virginal purity.[/quote]

I know.