Are We Supposed To Forgive The Devil?

[amarkich]

[quote name='nikkan_hanil' date='Jul 30 2004, 02:02 PM'] Some priest on lifeteen.com says it's our duty to love and pray for the devil, which makes no sense at all because his damnnation is eternal and unforgivable. [/quote]
All you need to do is look at the homepage for lifeteen to see that it is a protestant organization.

Edited July 30, 2004 by amarkich

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

I found the Lifeteen section in question:
[quote][b]TEEN Question:[/b]
God calls us to love everyone. Should we love the devil?

[b]Father J's Answer:[/b]
Short answer... Yes!

Longer answer... it's still Yes, but a few Scripture passages that might be helpful to pray about. “My command to you is: Love your enemies, pray for your persecutors. This will prove that you are children of your heavenly Father, for His son rises on the bad and the good, he reigns on the just and the unjust” (The Gospel of Matthew 5:44-45). And then there is, “Love your enemy and do good. Lend without expecting repayments. Then your recompense will be great. You will rightly be called children of the Most High, since He himself is good to the ungrateful and the wicked” (The Gospel of Luke 6:35-36). So, yes, you do have to love Satan. He may be the ultimate enemy, but God still loves him, even though he doesn’t love God. And so we must have pity and love him as well.

Now that doesn’t mean we want to be hanging out with him, spending quality time, talking long walks together, and try to get to know him better. No, you want to stay as far away from his evil as possible. But if we hated him, then we’re just be more like him. And let’s all try to be like our Father instead, always trying to live in the spirit of love.

I hope this helps and I’ll be praying for you.

Peace,
Fr. J
[url="http://www.lifeteen.com/DocQandA.asp?Action=View&ID=1185&Presenter=FatherJ"]http://www.lifeteen.com/DocQandA.asp?Actio...esenter=FatherJ[/url][/quote]
amarkich,
I have no relation to Lifeteen, but what brings you to believe that it is a Protestant organization? I know they have some abuses, but I heard they were going to clean them up.

Edited July 31, 2004 by thedude

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

The LT priest addresses loving the devil. Forgiveness is something else.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='amarkich' date='Jul 30 2004, 04:24 PM'] All you need to do is look at the homepage for lifeteen to see that it is a protestant organization. [/quote]
Unlike schismatics, lifeteen is inside the Church. They have been told to change their ways and obey, and they are.

Wouldn't it be nice if schismatics did the same?

[Don John of Austria]

You are not supposed to Love the Devil; the Devil has rejected all that is Holy since he rejected God, He is Evil and one is not supposed to Love evil, The Devil is not Man he is an Angel, He is not like us, he is not Torn nor is he Guilty, He is Fully commited to Rebellion agianst God, We Should NOT love that.

Edited July 31, 2004 by Don John of Austria

[carrdero]

If Satan knocked on my door and asked for a drink of water I would give it to him. Not the bottled Dasani water but probably form the tap. He could keep the glass too.

[Aloysius]

but what happens when he uses that water to drown someone, and then shatters the glass and stabs someone with its sharp edged? what then?!!!!

[carrdero]

Aloysius writes: but what happens when he uses that water to drown someone, and then shatters the glass and stabs someone with its sharp edged? what then?!!!!

You're right -Tap water in a dixie paper cup and he has to dispose of it in front of me (the cup that is-not the water).

[Guest JeffCR07]

We must draw a distinction between loving our enemies (by whom Christ clearly meant other human beings) and loving the Father of Lies. To claim that we must "love the Devil" is a flawed and legalistic argument, for it blatantly denies [i]why[/i] Christ said "love your enemies" in favor of resting on the words in and of themselves. We are commanded to love our enemies because all humans are created in the image of God, and so deserve to be treated with the greatest dignity and respect. There is nothing holy about the Devil. He is entirely fallen and completely damned. All that he is and all that he ever will be, until the end of time, is fully detestable in the eyes of God. To aid him, in any way is to sin.

Christ says that "whatever you do even unto the least of your brethren you do unto me" and he says this because we can see Christ even the most evil of our brothers and sisters. But Satan is not our brother, nor our sister, and before him even the most terrible of men will appear angelic. Nowhere inside him can you find the image of God, for his entire being rebels and denies and attacks such a thing.

There is nothing in him to love, nothing to respect, and thus there is no hope for him, nor any forgiveness. Christ came to save man, not Lucifer. Moreover, Scripture and Holy Tradition teach us that, in the end, Satan will feel the wrath of the Lamb.

Did George forgive the Dragon? Do you help the venemous snake that is poised to bite your child? The answer is obviously no. You kill the snake, as St. George killed the Dragon.

We are called to imitate Christ. It is holy for us to despise Satan, and to vehemently reject him with all our souls.

- Your Brother In Christ, Jeff

[qfnol31]

I would just add to that that we should love our human enemies because they are not damned and haven't completely rejected God until the end of time as has Satan. They can still choose God, and we should try to convert them, through love of course.

[Tora-Musume]

[quote name='carrdero' date='Jul 31 2004, 11:03 PM']

You're right -Tap water in a dixie paper cup and he has to dispose of it in front of me (the cup that is-not the water). [/quote]
Why even bother putting water (even if it is tap water) in a dixie cup when you can just have him stand outside and turn on your hose? That way you don't have to waste a dixie cup, you don't have to let the devil in your home, and the devil still gets his drink of water.

[Aloysius]

the second you turn your back to fill up the dixie cup, he'll stab you in the back and proceed then to murder your family

if you let him use your hose he'll strangle someone with it then flood the earth like Professor Chaos

The Devil made a choice and by the choice became PURE EVIL, there is no hope left in him or for him. Jeff is right. Pax.

[qfnol31]

Not pure evil, he still retains some good, or otherwise he would no longer exist.

Plus, he was created in the image of God.

[Tora-Musume]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Aug 1 2004, 12:45 AM']
if you let him use your hose he'll strangle someone with it then flood the earth like Professor Chaos

[/quote]
When I meant use the hose, I meant let him stand at a distance, turn on the hose, and tell the devil to open his mouth. That's why they invented those sprayers so you can spray the water farther than 25 feet. It eliminates him taking the hose and strangling someone with it. The Devil still gets his drink of water. ummm...flood the earth? I don't think that if I left my hose on that it will flood the earth. My neighboors would call or come over to turn it off. Be kind to thei neighboors. Turn off their hose for them. In my case, my landlord would come over and turn the hose off for me since he pays for the water bill . Are you going to say that the devil can take the hose from me, strangle me with it and the rest of the world, then keep the hose on and flood the earth like Professor Chaos? If the devil is that powerful to be able to strangle everyone and then flood the earth with a single hose, that's some power he has. . He needs to be faster than a speeding bullet (Superman) to be able to strangel everyone or be like Flash. The hose thing confuses me. Can you really flood the earth with a single hose? Gonna have to try that one.

Edited August 1, 2004 by Tora-Musume

[Tora-Musume]

I just wanted to say that I don't think we are all perfect. We have all created sin. Whether it be to ourselves or to others.

1. Can anyone here tell me if they have done wrong to others or to themselves?

2. Would that be considered evil?

3. If the Devil is called the Devil because he is evil and he has been damned for all his sins, would that make us evil for doing something wrong to others or to ourselves?

4. What does that make us?

5. If we did, can we be forgiven?

6. Or am I going to beaver dam me because I have done something evil.

7. Am I assumed to be a devil also?

8. What is considered evil?

9. Is stealing candy from a store evil? (you never stole candy from a store when you were little? )

10. Would a person stealing food from a grocery store for their children be considered evil? The children are starving and there is no jobs available for this person.

Just a few questions. Thanks.

[Guest JeffCR07]

[quote]Not pure evil, he still retains some good, or otherwise he would no longer exist.

Plus, he was created in the image of God. [/quote]


zach, I'm not positive how correct this statement is. I know for a fact that angels are not created in the image of God - that is a characteristic distinct to humans alone. Moreover, I don't think your first argument works either. A sin most certainly exists, though it contains within itself not a shred of Good. The devil has rid himself of all good and vehemently rejects it. I would argue that he has forsaken all that is holy and is, really, pure evil.

- Your Brother in Christ, Jeff

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Tora-Musume' date='Aug 1 2004, 11:37 AM'] I just wanted to say that I don't think we are all perfect. We have all created sin. Whether it be to ourselves or to others.

1. Can anyone here tell me if they have done wrong to others or to themselves?

2. Would that be considered evil?

3. If the Devil is called the Devil because he is evil and he has been damned for all his sins, would that make us evil for doing something wrong to others or to ourselves?

4. What does that make us?

5. If we did, can we be forgiven?

6. Or am I going to beaver dam me because I have done something evil.

7. Am I assumed to be a devil also?

8. What is considered evil?

9. Is stealing candy from a store evil? (you never stole candy from a store when you were little? )

10. Would a person stealing food from a grocery store for their children be considered evil? The children are starving and there is no jobs available for this person.

Just a few questions. Thanks. [/quote]
No one is claimimg to be perfecti. Almost everybody sins.

The devil had a choice and he chose evil. Angels only got one chance and he blew it. We have a chance to change our mind until the moment of our death.

Baptism gives us a life of grace which lasts until we commit a mortal [grace-killing] sin. After such a sin we need to reconcile ourself to the Church by confession and repentance.

Stealing candy is a sin.
Stealing food to say alive is not a sin, becasuse the earth belongs to us all.

[Aloysius]

the point is that everything the devil does is contrary to God. that's the choice he made. someone who had the Beatific Vision and threw it away is BEYOND hope, eternally damned.

[MC Just]

[quote name='carrdero' date='Jul 31 2004, 09:35 PM'] If Satan knocked on my door and asked for a drink of water I would give it to him. Not the bottled Dasani water but probably form the tap. He could keep the glass too. [/quote]
I'd give him toilet water.. The devil deserves no mercy or forgiveness and neither can it ever be granted him..

[MichaelFilo]

Personally, if the devil came my way, I'd be quick to make the sign of the cross, and get a rosary ASAP.

God Bless

Mikey