I Dont Believe Kerry Is Catholic

[White Knight]

Its not my place, to judge him or not, But in my personal opinion if one doesn't practice the Catholic Teachings/Faith, then your not a Catholic, only by Title are you assuming the Catholic ways, but thats not true, you have to practicing the Catholic Faith in order to be a True Catholic, same way with Protestant Christians.


John Kerry, in My Opinion is not a Catholic. He may take the Title, but that doesn't make it that your a Catholic.


A Catholic or Protestant who takes the Title, but does nothing with his or her faith is just a "Title Taker"

[MorphRC]

[quote name='Good Friday' date='Aug 28 2004, 03:18 PM'] [quote name='MorphRC']Therefore hes a heretic. You cant pick and choose what u wanna believe.[/quote]
No one's disputing that he's a heretic, but he does not cease to be Catholic as a heretic. [/quote]
What?

Thats an oxymoron. You cant be Catholic, refuse basic teachings, be a heretic and a Catholic as well.

[MorphRC]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='Aug 28 2004, 03:31 PM'] No one's disputing that he's a heretic, but he does not cease to be Catholic as a heretic.[/QUOTE]
To be Catholic a man must be visibly bound to the Church through the "profession of faith, the sacraments, and ecclesiastical government and communion." [Vatican 2, [u]Lumen Gentium[/u], no. 14] So, if a man dissents from the teaching of the Magisterium and falls into heresy, he is no longer in full communion with the Catholic Church, and as a consequence he ceases to be a Catholic. This does not mean that he is no longer baptized, because baptism marks the soul with an indelible character, and the possession of this indelible mark means that he is in some sense still related to the Church, but it does not make him a Catholic.

God bless,
Todd [/quote]
ty

[CatholicCrusader]

[quote]Someone using the faith for votes, is not Catholic.
[/quote]

I am against Kerry as much as anyone, but to say he is "using the Faith for votes" is to judge his disposition and his intention, which we cannot judge. We can say this and this and this say he is not a Catholic, and this and this and this say he has been flaunting that he is a Catholic. It seems that he is doing it just for votes. You can say that, but to judge something you could never possibly know for a fact is the application of "judge not that you may not be judged". That is misquoted nearly every time it is quoted, but it does apply here. We cannot judge someone's motive or intention rashly.

Also, I assume you are not saying it is wrong to use Faith as a reason for election. If a person were a faithful Catholic, there is no question that he would get my vote. Pope Leo XIII condemned a secular state. Anyone who will do all he can to bring back the one true Church, outside of which NO ONE is saved, to the government, I am all for. (Of course, Kerry is not dong that, but I was addressing the use of the Faith as a reason to elect a person as a concept not in this particular instance.)

[Good Friday]

From a Phatmass Church Scholar: [url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=18975"]http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=18975[/url]

[quote name='BLAZEr']A Catholic never really ceases to be a Catholic. Even Apostasy is ultimately a sin that can be forgiven and the person allowed back into communion.

I think what you are referring to here is when a Catholic can present himself/herself as a Catholic in good standing. This is trickier to define. A divorced and remarried Catholic is not a Catholic in good standing. A Catholic whose life or work contradicts the teachings of the Church is not a Catholic in good standing. For example, an active homosexual who refuses to accept the teachings of the Church or someone who works for an abortion provider or, it can be argued, a Catholic politician who actively supports abortion and liberalizing of the abortion laws in their country.

These people have not renounced their baptism (as has an apostate) but they have practically (materially) renounced it by their lives (sin) and beliefs (heresy), and they are certainly outside of the Communion of the Church.

Those who are in Schism are also outside of the communion, and certainly those who originally break with the Church committ a sin, however their children would not be in sin, although still in schism and not in communion.


I think it would be a sin against Charity to call anyone who was baptised a Catholic "not Catholic." However, it is important in a culture such as ours where many people claim to be Catholic but in fact are either apostates or heretics (think here Frances Kissling of Catholics for Free Choice) to make a distinction between those who are faithful Catholics and those who Catholic in name only.[/quote]
Knock yourselves out.

[Sinner]

All scholarly stuff and official definitions aside. And I have learned alot about the Faith from this post..... But from a simpletons viewpoint:

-If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... its probably a duck.
-If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and crows like a rooster.... its very possibly not a duck.

[Anna]

What if he walks like a peacock, crows like a rooster, but claims to be a duck?

The Holy Father and various bishops conferences around the world have reiterated, time and again, the re­sponsibility of all Catholics--and especially those in public life--to foster a culture of life.

In 1998 the US bishops released a document called [i][u]Living the Gospel of Life[/u][/i]. In that document--released as the debate on partial-birth abortion was paramount--the bishops affirmed:

[b]"Catholics who... Serve in public leadership positions have an obligation to place their faith at the heart of their public service, particularly on issues regarding the sanctity of human life.

We urge those Catholic officials who ... depart from the Church teaching on the inviolability of human life in their public life ... to reflect on the grave contradiction of assuming public office and [i]presenting themselves as credible Catholics [/i][COLOR=red]when their actions on fundamental issues of human life are not in agreement with Church teaching ....

No appeal to policy, procedure, majority will, or pluralism ever excuses a public official from defending life to the greatest extent possible."[/b]
(my emphasis added)

So Kerry is a heretical Catholic who presents himself as a credible Catholic. A credible Catholic, he is not.

[kateri05]

[quote name='Raphael' date='Aug 24 2004, 12:11 PM']
Hahaha...they can try me. I'll go to prison for tax evasion first. [/quote]
what state do you live in? you might already be paying for state-funded abortions. i just found out that i was

[MorphRC]

Hes only catholic, coz he wants votes. His wife was on 20/20, and she supports abortion as well. So they are both non-catholic.

[Ash Wednesday]

Pray for John Kerry.

*edited because I'm too confused*

Edited September 1, 2004 by Ash Wednesday

[MorphRC]

If you:

- Deny Christianity [Apostacy]
- Willingly Accept a known Heresy
- Willingly deny basic doctrine/dogma
- Willingly and Knowingly go against basic Church teaching

You cut yourself of from Catholic Unity, hence, heretic. Or if you deny the whole thing, apostate.

=============================================

[b]Saint Robert Southwell, S.J. (died A.D. 1595):[/b]

"Embrace His mercy before the time of rigour and return to His Church lest He debar you from His kingdom. He cannot have God for his Father who does not possess the Catholic Church for his Mother. Turn now the bias of your heart towards the Sanctuary of Salvation and the city of refuge."

[i]English Marytr during the Reformation.[/i]

[b]Saint Peter Canisius S.J., Doctor, (died A.D. 1597):[/b]

"Outside of this communion, as outside of the ark of Noah, there is absolutely no salvation for mortals: not for Jews or pagans who never received the faith of the Church, nor for heretics who, having received it, corrupted it; not for schismatics who left the peace and unity of the Church; and finally neither for the excommunicated or those who for any other serious cause deserve to be put away and separated from the body of the Church like pernicious members. For the rule of Cyprian and Augustine is certain: he will not have God for his Father who would not have the Church for his mother." ([i]Catechismi Latini et Germanici[/i])

[b]Pope Leo XII, A.D. 1823-1829:[/b]

"It is impossible for the most true God, who is Truth Itself, the best, the wisest Provider, and rewarder of good men, to approve all sects who profess false teachings which are often inconsistent with one another and contradictory, and to confer eternal rewards on their members. For we have a surer word of the prophet, and in writing to you We speak wisdom among the perfect; not the wisdom of this world but the wisdom of God in a mystery. By it we are taught, and by divine faith we hold, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and that no other name under heaven is given to men except the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth by which we must be saved. This is why we profess that there is no salvation outside the Church. [...] For the Church is the pillar and ground of the truth. With reference to those words Augustine says: "If any man be outside the Church he will be excluded from the number of sons, and will not have God for Father since he has not the Church for mother."" ([i]Ubi Primum[/i])

[MorphRC]

14/21: [url="http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo12/l12ubipr.htm"]http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo12/l12ubipr.htm[/url]

[Ash Wednesday]

So if someone is apostate, are they still a Catholic?

So Muhammad Ali is still a Catholic?
He was baptised one before converting to Islam.

[Ash Wednesday]

Morph, you are an information Ninja.

:ph34r:

[ilovechrist]

[quote name='megamattman1' date='Aug 24 2004, 09:46 AM'] Most Catholics see through Kerry's morality anyway. I wouldn't be surprise if him claiming to be Catholic is actually hurting him with Catholics. [/quote]
unfortunately,
i see this to be false. many Catholics that i have met with have expressed interest in voting for him, just because they don't like the way Bush has been running things.

"i know he's for abortion... but i still am for him, for he can be a much better prez than Bush."

it's horrible that so many Catholics aren't educated like they [i]NEED[/i] to be.

[MorphRC]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Sep 1 2004, 07:21 PM'] So if someone is apostate, are they still a Catholic?

So Muhammad Ali is still a Catholic?
He was baptised one before converting to Islam.

[/quote]
No he wasnt. You cant be Catholic and totally abandon the faith. If thats right, then i was still catholic back in june and july, so dust labelled me wrong [according to that thinking].

[flip]

I'm Catholic... .well im not actually. im converting. I do have the One Faith though, just not the confirmation part...that comes in Easter...


ok, go back to talking about kerry.....