Mantilla

[Totus Tuus]

I think it's sad we've lost it... We owe a great debt of ingratitude to the Feminazis of the sixties for that. But I don't think people today are really to blame for not continuing the practice, since it's been two generations now since it was, for no good reason, stopped.

[Theoketos]

[img]http://extremecatholic.blogspot.com/images/mantilla/jfk-dating.jpg[/img]

[tojo]

At my old Protestant church, more than half the women wore headcoverings of some kind, the younger women mostly hade bandannas or similar such things. The church didn't require it, but all the elders wives wore them (and always skirts to church) so most of the women followed their example.

It's in the Bible, it was the long standing practice of the Church across all cultures, I think they should be worn, but I fault th eChurch for not instructing women to do so, not (most of) the women for being confused by the Church's neglecting to address the issue.*


*Keep in mind, I'm not claiming the Church has doctinally taught error, that's impossible, I'm just saying Her actions should be different.

Edited November 22, 2005 by tomasio127

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Nov 22 2005, 02:52 PM']Yes, I wore a veil. Wearing one did not draw attention to myself-- I got attention by virtue of being the bride. 

Wearing a chapel veil to mass would draw attention to myself. It would cause me to focus on the fact that I was wearing it-- not on my reason for being at mass to being with. And saying that this would go away as I got used to it doesn't wash. I still think about (and am aware of) not holding hands during the Our Father just about every single mass
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I have a problem with this argument, but I can't pinpoint what it is that seems wrong. I'm not saying you're wrong... just that something seems wrong here based on this fact:

There are some of us who are [i]called[/i] to wear the veil, and believe that if other women understood its significance they would too. Now, when we go to daily Mass and "draw attention to ourselves" does that make us bad? No, because we are doing His holy will, and that is above what others may think of us.

So are you saying that people should not do things that draw attention to themselves? Because are [i]are[/i] called to be a sign of contradiction...

[MC Just]

my wife wears one.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

if i had a wife she probley wear one.

[argent_paladin]

I think the flaw in the reasoning is that the premise that:
It is wrong to call attention to yourself at mass
is not necessarily true.

We are called to imitate Christ. On many occassions, Christ called attention to himself. In fact, his entire birth was a big attention-getter as was his ministry and death. The intention and circumstances are what matter. If you call attention to yourself because you are behaving boorishly at mass. That is bad. If you are calling attention to yourself but that is not your direct intention and it is because of some virtuous act (say, applying the Heimlich maneuver to a choking parishoner) then it is ok. Obviously no one would say that you cannot save a life during mass because it would draw attention to yourself. Similarly, if you wear a mantilla out of devotion and obedience, rather than to draw attention to yourself, then it seems that it would be reasonable, especially since it is Catholic tradition.

The second flaw that I see is the premise:
if the Church doesn't say anything about it, I can do what I want.

That is clearly not true. The Church doesn't say that you can't wear a bikini to mass, but it would clearly be inappropriate. The principles of modesty must be applied to every age.

The final false premise is:
Requiring or encouraging women to wear a head covering is sexist and therefore wrong.

This is false because just because a custom recognizes the differences between men and women, doesn't mean that it is wrong. In fact, that is what I find most appealing about the practice of women covering their head. It recognizes that women are different than men. It communicates, modesty, obedience and tradition. Now, it doesn't have to be a mantilla or veil. It can be a bonnet, hat or scarf. But it connects us with our past and the origins of the Church. Not to mention it is an imitation of our Blessed Mother.

[Totus Tuus]

VERY well put.

[tojo]

[quote name='argent_paladin' date='Nov 22 2005, 04:17 PM']The second flaw that I see is the premise:
if the Church doesn't  say anything about it, I can do what I want.

That is clearly not true. The Church doesn't say that you can't wear a bikini to mass, but it would clearly be inappropriate. The principles of modesty must be applied to every age.
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And another false premise is that the Church doesn't say anything about it. The Church says the Bible is the infallible Word of God, and in the Bible the Apostle St. Paul teaches that that it is proper and right for a woman's head to be covered when she prays or prophesys, and for a man's head to be uncovered then.

[quote name='1 Corinthians 11:5-10 (Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition.)']5But every woman praying or prophesying with her head not covered, disgraceth her head: for it is all one as if she were shaven.

    6For if a woman be not covered, let her be shorn. But if it be a shame to a woman to be shorn or made bald, let her cover her head.

    7The man indeed ought not to cover his head, because he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of the man.

    8For the man is not of the woman, but the woman of the man.

    9For the man was not created for the woman, but the woman for the man.

    10Therefore ought the woman to have a power over her head, because of the angels. [/quote]

Every biblical teaching is a teaching of the Church, especially those of the New Testament, since it was produced by the Church herself.

Edited November 22, 2005 by tomasio127

[Lil Red]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Nov 22 2005, 08:27 AM']Three conditions under which I would wear one:

1. I attended a Latin mass and didn't want to stand out
2. The Vatican tells me to
3. I take up flamenco dancing
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okay, i get the first two, but flamenco dancing?

[philothea]

I would wear one if my husband approved, but I don't even have to ask -- I know he wouldn't like it. As it is I am already way overdressed compared to everyone else.

I've been trying to figure out how to get some kind of non-obvious head covering thing going. A hat would be easiest, but that would probably require a whole new wardrobe. A bandana just isn't going to cut it. Maybe a scarf...?

[tojo]

[quote]I've been trying to figure out how to get some kind of non-obvious head covering thing going. A hat would be easiest, but that would probably require a whole new wardrobe. wacko.gif A bandana just isn't going to cut it. Maybe a scarf...?[/quote]

I've seen some girls wear a this scarf wrapped over the central portion of the hair atop their head, it can look simply like it is your style.

[img]http://www.hopechurch.info/Faithbuilder/Faith%20Builder.jpg[/img]

This woman from my old church has sucha covering, the angle of her head makes it hard to tell quite what it actually looked like though.

[zabbazooey]

I'd like to start wearing one to adoration

[zunshynn]

I wish...

[DemonSlayer]

I wasn't even sure what a mantilla was.