LIFETEEN

[FiZzGiG]

oops i didn't finish

And now me and my friends come and worship and celebrate the Eucharist... not just sit in a pew!

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Scofizzle' date='Sep 27 2004, 05:30 PM'] There seems to be some confusion about LIFETEEN so I'll try and clear up some stuff. First off, there were no altar calls. Teens were invited to come onto the altar during the concecration so as to further understand the mystery of the Eucharist as well as to form a community. At the time there was nothing saying this coudnt be done so it was not a liturgical abuse. The Vatican has handed some rulings specifically to LIFETEEN regarding these issues. Asking LIFETEEN to no longer do this, so LIFETEEN in AZ.(where it started) sent out letters to every parish that has a LIFETEEN mass asking everyone to stop. So by the end of the year there will no longer be any parishes that still invite their teens around the altar, if they do they are not following LIFETEEN guidelines. But at the time there was nothing wrong with having teens around the altar.

I think I'll start a new thread about this. [/quote]
No. You don't change the Mass simply because the Vatican doesn't have a specific rule against the abuse you are planning. No one has permission to gather around the alter and never did. Lifeteen did not have permission for an "altar gather" . I know because I wrote and asked them.

[Carnanc]

little experience with it, but I haven't always gotten the best impressions of it from what I"ve heard

[HomeTeamFamily]

no offense but arent we beating a dead horse here?

[FiZzGiG]

Ya I don't think you should go off changing the Mass, but the thing is that there was no abusive intent. The intent was good -- to get teens more involved in the Mass. They didn't want to "change" the Mass and make it something different. They wanted to emphasize aspects of the Mass
For example: the altar gathering was to emphasize the importance and intimacy of the Eucharist. Jesus comes to us in the most intimate way through the Eucharist, and gathering around the altar together as a communion of believers emphasized that intimacy.

True, this is no longer allowed and I suppose (as you said) was never truly allowed, but Life Teen's purpose for the gathering was to bring Catholic teens together--not to completely change the Mass and Church teachings.
So at least know that Life Teen's intent was good! Even if their actions were too unorthodox or wrong.

[cathoholic]

I never really thought much about God, much less the Church until LIFE-TEEN came into the picture. After a retreat (the adoration part did it for me) I was hooked. I started to love God and his Church with more fervor than I could ever imagine humanly possible. I am glad God gave me the experience of this youth group. I am now a core member and couldn't be happier about the liturgical changes. Some core members are orthodox Catholics (myself included) and refused to go up to the altar. I don't see any justification for anyone saying anything about liturgical abuses now. If any parish still has those "altar calls" or whatever you want to call them, they are not following the changes (or return to the way the Mass is suppose to be).

[XIX]

[quote name='Soldier4Him' date='Oct 18 2004, 01:52 PM'] how can mass be boring? it's not everydady somebody dies for you and then offers their body, blood, soul, and divinity for you to consume. [/quote]
You forgetting daily mass?

[Duc_In_Altum]

There seems to be a lot of unnecessary and unjustified malice for lifeteen programs on phatmass. Lifeteen has been the catalyst for a rebirth in youth ministry in the Catholic Church in America and in Europe. Sure, there are some questionable practices. But isn't it true? [i]The mass should never end.[/i] We must always be mindful of the holy sacrifice in our own daily lives. Now i also agree that the Church should be unified. The GIRM certainly helped that. There [i]shouldn't[/i] be altar calls. There [i]should[/i] be a universal sending in the mass. But on the whole, the good that lifeteen has done for the church has fueled a whole new respect for orthodoxy and its intentions are truely beautiful. When lifeteeen programs are run correctly, they fuel a spirit for obedience and holiness in the lives of young Catholics.

So many "cradle Catholics" have lost respect for the orthodox mass. That's not because of lifeteen. That's through our liberal society and the entertainment age we live in. There is a very shallow perception that the mass is "boring" and just because they aren't jumping and dancing, the mass isn't feeding them. Turning our heads in bitterness and lashing out at that mentality is certainly not the way to bring people back to respect for orthodoxy. [i]We are called to love[/i]. Lifeteen does that. It has a spiritual gift to bring in fenceline Catholics and other Christians and educate them in the mass and Catholic Church. After appreciating the mass in a more evangelistic and charismatic form, they grow in appreciation of the roots of that kind of liturgy. The orthodox mass grows in their hearts and they begin to love that too. Lifeteen has a very loving and universal perspective. It allows people to come back to their roots through a new vision of teen ministry. That is a very beautiful thing.

I sense that a lot of phatmass peeps, though their intentions are good, have this unnecessary bitterness for lifeteen that really needs to peace outta here. Many Catholics who love the Holy Sacrifice today have returned home through the love and mercy of our everlasting redeemer and lifeteen programs. I know this because I, a cradler, returned through a lifeteen program. I now greatly prefer orthodoxy to lifeteen but i understand and welcome the program and the growth it creates. After all, the Lifeteen mass is still [i]a mass[/i] which is "heaven on earth." We must be welcoming and rejoice that Catholics are returning home. The lost sheep have been found!


in faith, hope, and Christ,

-Joe

[littleflower+JMJ]

im glad to hear you were able to come back to the Church ...GOD is good

[Duc_In_Altum]

God is indeed good. By the way, what is MEH?

[BLAZEr]

[quote name='Scofizzle' date='Sep 27 2004, 03:30 PM'] There seems to be some confusion about LIFETEEN so I'll try and clear up some stuff. First off, there were no altar calls. Teens were invited to come onto the altar during the concecration so as to further understand the mystery of the Eucharist as well as to form a community. At the time there was nothing saying this coudnt be done so it was not a liturgical abuse. The Vatican has handed some rulings specifically to LIFETEEN regarding these issues. Asking LIFETEEN to no longer do this, so LIFETEEN in AZ.(where it started) sent out letters to every parish that has a LIFETEEN mass asking everyone to stop. So by the end of the year there will no longer be any parishes that still invite their teens around the altar, if they do they are not following LIFETEEN guidelines. But at the time there was nothing wrong with having teens around the altar.

I think I'll start a new thread about this. [/quote]
You should understand that it was always a liturgical abuse to gather around the altar. The fact that Rome told LifeTeen to stop is in fact proof that it was an abuse. No rules were changed with the new norms. Only clarifications and strenghtening. Gathering around the altar has always been an abuse.

[BLAZEr]

[quote name='Scofizzle' date='Sep 29 2004, 02:06 PM'] theres actually a long story behind ho wit came to be in Lifeteen. Lifeteen was started at St. Timothy's Church in Mesa, Arizona. The design of the church is very unique, Ive never seen another one like it. I cant find any pictures of it, but ill try to explain it to you. The altar is the focus of the entire building the rest of the seat wrap around the altar but only on one side. like 180 degrees of seting. There are two levels of seating. There are several hundred seats on the floor and and several hundred maybe a thousand seats above that are stadium style seating. The only problem is the floor seats are underneath the stadium seating. Meaning the seats on the floor cannot be seen by the ones on top and visa versa. When lifeteen started 20 years ago. The teens began to all gather and sit on the bottom level and the parents and adults sat on top. Nowadays it is all teens on the bottom. Now during the consecration the teens came up on the altar for one reason. So that the entire community (teens and adults) could be seen and heard by everyone. There was no lack of reverance for the holy Eucharist, there was in fact an increase of reverance in the community. At our parish we did invite the teens up to the altar during the concecration, but after a couple of weeks our TEENS asked us to stop doing it becuase thye didnt like it. So we havent done it for 4 years after doing for maybe 4 or 5 Masses.

Anways that is the reason they started doing at St. Tim's, which after going to that parish I realize why they do it and it actually makes sense in that parish, but as Lifeteen spread and got more and more popular other parishes started doing it where it was not needed. But Lifeteen parish's across the world are being obidient to the Magisterium, and stoping this practice. Like I said the goal was to phase it out by the end of the year and explain to the teens why we are doing what we do.

Once again you all may think I'm crazy but if you were to go to St. Tim's in Arizona you would understand what im talking about concerning the architecture.

Any other Lifeteen question? [/quote]
I've been to St. Tim's. I still don't think it makes sense.

[BLAZEr]

I don't really think Lifeteen is good or bad. I think it has been a vehicle for many teens to come to know their faith. I also think it is a program that is entirely unsustainable in your life as a Christian. The idea of Lifeteen emerges from the idea of "inculturation" that you should use aspects of the culture in your evangelization of the culture. This is not a bad idea unless the aspects you are using actually detract from the culture you are trying to create.

I think the interesting thing to study would be whether people who were an active part of Lifeteen in High School have been able to sustain and grow in their faith in college and adulthood.

As it stands, I'm a Youth Minister who doesn't do LifeTeen, but respects it. I am, however, not inclined to excuse its weaknesses. Just like I'm not inclined to excuse my own.

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='Scofizzle' date='Sep 29 2004, 03:06 PM'] theres actually a long story behind ho wit came to be in Lifeteen. Lifeteen was started at St. Timothy's Church in Mesa, Arizona. The design of the church is very unique, Ive never seen another one like it. I cant find any pictures of it, but ill try to explain it to you. The altar is the focus of the entire building the rest of the seat wrap around the altar but only on one side. like 180 degrees of seting. There are two levels of seating. There are several hundred seats on the floor and and several hundred maybe a thousand seats above that are stadium style seating. The only problem is the floor seats are underneath the stadium seating. Meaning the seats on the floor cannot be seen by the ones on top and visa versa. When lifeteen started 20 years ago. The teens began to all gather and sit on the bottom level and the parents and adults sat on top. Nowadays it is all teens on the bottom. Now during the consecration the teens came up on the altar for one reason. So that the entire community (teens and adults) could be seen and heard by everyone. There was no lack of reverance for the holy Eucharist, there was in fact an increase of reverance in the community. At our parish we did invite the teens up to the altar during the concecration, but after a couple of weeks our TEENS asked us to stop doing it becuase thye didnt like it. So we havent done it for 4 years after doing for maybe 4 or 5 Masses.

Anways that is the reason they started doing at St. Tim's, which after going to that parish I realize why they do it and it actually makes sense in that parish, but as Lifeteen spread and got more and more popular other parishes started doing it where it was not needed. But Lifeteen parish's across the world are being obidient to the Magisterium, and stoping this practice. Like I said the goal was to phase it out by the end of the year and explain to the teens why we are doing what we do.

Once again you all may think I'm crazy but if you were to go to St. Tim's in Arizona you would understand what im talking about concerning the architecture.

Any other Lifeteen question? [/quote]
You call that a Church? Sounds like a sports stadium to me. Seems to be fitting enough, though, for the atmosphere created by Lifeteen Masses.

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='BLAZEr' date='Oct 19 2004, 12:50 PM'] You should understand that it was always a liturgical abuse to gather around the altar. The fact that Rome told LifeTeen to stop is in fact proof that it was an abuse. No rules were changed with the new norms. Only clarifications and strenghtening. Gathering around the altar has always been an abuse. [/quote]
Exactly!