musturde Posted October 23, 2004 Posted October 23, 2004 Cmom, it's better than the kids seeking an "interactive" Church and instead joining a prot Church but I see what you mean. The problem is that if the kids even consider going through lifenight, they'll get a big chunk of Catholic Theology without even noticing it sometimes.
Guest rate128 Posted October 24, 2004 Posted October 24, 2004 I think everyone who is against LifeTeen and so-called "abuses" that go on need to keep in mind that, yes, the Vatican did ask LifeTeen to make a few changes. But the Vatican also said that it was a good program and has had a significant increase in the number of vocations, espically that of priesthood. If a Vatican endorsement isn't not enough for you, I don't know what is.
littleflower+JMJ Posted October 24, 2004 Posted October 24, 2004 [quote]I think everyone who is against LifeTeen and so-called "abuses" that go on need to keep in mind that, yes, the Vatican did ask LifeTeen to make a few changes. But the Vatican also said that it was a good program and has had a significant increase in the number of vocations, espically that of priesthood. If a Vatican endorsement isn't not enough for you, I don't know what is. [/quote] hi! the abuses were not "so-called abuses" they were real abuses that needed to be stopped and went directly against the GIRM, ones that any catholic should have known them as, as well. but what i wanted to ask is can you please provide a link where the Vatican is actually endorsing LT? permitting is one thing, endorsing is another. last time i checked the program has been created and spread only in the US--by the US--and not from Rome. thanks!
Scofizzle Posted October 24, 2004 Author Posted October 24, 2004 i dotn believe that Vatican has made an official endorsement YET. But good things have been said about LIFE TEEN from some high ranking officials. Also LIFE TEEN is not just in the US. It's World Wide.
littleflower+JMJ Posted October 24, 2004 Posted October 24, 2004 [quote name='Scofizzle' date='Oct 24 2004, 02:36 AM'] i dotn believe that Vatican has made an official endorsement YET. [/quote] thanks scofizzle thats what i was thinking for i knew of none.
musturde Posted October 24, 2004 Posted October 24, 2004 [quote]the abuses were not "so-called abuses" they were real abuses that needed to be stopped and went directly against the GIRM, ones that any catholic should have known them as, as well.[/quote] This is something the priests and bishops should have known more than lifeteen itself. This would mean our bishops and priests contributed to this failure of recognition. Not to bash anyone but isn't it true? The bishops allowed it, so we thought we could get away with those changes. We were wrong, but you guys seem to put all the blame of ignorance on lifeteen only.
toledo_jesus Posted October 24, 2004 Posted October 24, 2004 well, one more reason not to let the laity run things, I guess. Anyway, and let me say this charitably, sometimes our bishops and priests aren't fully correct. they are only human. And they certainly weren't at every Lifeteen Mass.
musturde Posted October 24, 2004 Posted October 24, 2004 Of course Toledo, no one's completely infallible (unless the Pope is spewing doctrine). Now, the thing is, the Bishops have more authority on this than we do. If they say something is okay that the Vatican hasn't really gone against (which for now, Vatican isn't really against Lifeteen, it's just there), than I believe it's safe to believe that its okay to some extent. There are some things that may still trouble people but I dont understand how the Vatican can issue only 2 complaints, one of them being a minor detail (which can still be a big thing but how could they miss the other things that are more noticible?).
Scofizzle Posted October 24, 2004 Author Posted October 24, 2004 (edited) LIFE TEEN [COLOR=red] not a phatmass word [color] Rules Edited October 25, 2004 by cmotherofpirl
Guest rate128 Posted October 25, 2004 Posted October 25, 2004 [quote name='musturde' date='Oct 24 2004, 09:15 AM'] I dont understand how the Vatican can issue only 2 complaints, one of them being a minor detail (which can still be a big thing but how could they miss the other things that are more noticible?).[/quote] What other things? I know that what I say probably won't change your minds, but nonetheless, Life Teen has totally changed my life. And definatley for the better. I went through years of CCD and I honestly can't remember one thing that I "learned". Most programs for Catholic youth, let alone youth in general, don't speak to teens on their level. LifeTeen has showed me tons not only about the Catholic Church, but also tons about myself. High school is a rough time, maybe some of you have forgotten that ( no I'm not calling you old). But there are things going on now during the high school years that just didn't happen 5 years ago. I've heard people talk about how LifeTeen is all about "feeling good". Ask most teens, and they can tell you that being a Catholic in today's world doesn't feel good. We know what the tough times are like, because we go though them too. As for the music differences- the music minsisters are careful about what tunes they use when. The opening songs are to wake you up and say " hey! Mass is starting!" we don't use " The Happy Song" during communion. Most teens don't want to listen to a high pitched psalm that they can't understand what words are being sung. The way I see it, the music used during Life Teen mass is another way of speaking to us teens on our level.
lifeteenchick527 Posted October 25, 2004 Posted October 25, 2004 lifeteen is one of best thing that has happened to me, and it is probably one of the best things that the Catholic Church has done for its youth. when iam at lifeteen, i learn about how God sees me, not how the world sees me. Our core takes situations that happen in High School, and they help us cope with many issues that are really hard to deal with in high school. they make me at least, want to be a better person, make a change, and help other people live better lives to the Golry of God. that's just a fraction of how much i love lifeteen!! ~GOD BLESS~ ~L~T~C~
rachael Posted October 25, 2004 Posted October 25, 2004 [quote name='lifeteenchick527' date='Oct 24 2004, 10:29 PM'] lifeteen is one of best thing that has happened to me, and it is probably one of the best things that the Catholic Church has done for its youth. when iam at lifeteen, i learn about how God sees me, not how the world sees me. Our core takes situations that happen in High School, and they help us cope with many issues that are really hard to deal with in high school. they make me at least, want to be a better person, make a change, and help other people live better lives to the Golry of God. that's just a fraction of how much i love lifeteen!! ~GOD BLESS~ ~L~T~C~ [/quote] :group:
musturde Posted October 25, 2004 Posted October 25, 2004 lol hold up guys, I didn't mean my arguement that way, I was argueing for Lifeteen, not against it. People claimed there are a lot of things wrong with lifeteen, that's what I meant.
toledo_jesus Posted October 25, 2004 Posted October 25, 2004 (edited) my point is, it's not an excuse to say "the bishop allowed it." Just because the bishop allows it doesn't make it right, and doesn't mean that he even understands the scope of the problem. I just recognize the argument of "bishop said" from other places. Lifeteen has done a lot of good, no doubt. I just don't think it should have been necessary to have a special program for teens. If we are properly taught then there should be no need for programs of this sort. Does that make sense to anybody? I heard somebody mention that they didn't learn anything in CCD. Well, me neither! The fault lies in the catechists and the curriculum when you don't learn anything. The information is there, but in my case it was presented in such a generic way as to be totally worthless to a mind that is unsure of the whole Christianity thing. I submit that we need to revamp the education of young Catholics, and leave the Mass alone. Edited October 25, 2004 by toledo_jesus
Scofizzle Posted October 25, 2004 Author Posted October 25, 2004 [quote name='Scofizzle' date='Oct 24 2004, 05:42 PM'] LIFE TEEN [COLOR=red] not a phatmass word [color] Rules [/quote] sorry cmom.....I didnt htink it was that bad...but then again im a dork [quote]I just don't think it should have been necessary to have a special program for teens[/quote] Toledo_Jesus I doesn't seem like you do a whole lot of work with youth, I think you MUST have a special program for teens..... but you said it all. All LIFE TEEN is is a "revamping of the education of young Catholics." thats all. And you can't begin to Cathechize teens, untill they have a relationship with Christ and you develope a relatioship with Christ through the mass. I wouls also like to stress that the Mass was not changed. Any LIFE TEEN mass is no less a mass than any other mass. The things that are changed in a LIFE TEEN Mass are all allowed to be changed. i.e. music and homilies. And when a Bishop gives you permission to do something, that means that there is no problem with it. Grnated Bishops are people and they make mistakes. But there were 100s a bishops that said it was ok. So the fault does lie in the hands of the Bishops. I don't personally have the Pope's e-mail address so I couldnt ask him directly. So we asked our Bishop and he said OK. Lastly. All the things that happened with the Mass are in the past. Everything has been changed. So all of you folks that turn their noses up at the term LIFE TEEN get over it. Open your eyes to the unbelievable good that Christ is doing through LIFE TEEN. don't just dismiss it because of mistakes made in the past. Live in the now. If we all dwelled on mistakes from the past. no one would be Catholic b/c of the corruption in the younger church. PLUS usually when people hate what you are doing. IT's usually a good thing. BLessed are those who are persecuted.
wopsim Posted October 25, 2004 Posted October 25, 2004 this is a very interesting place to read about people's oppinions.... and to say something on the fruits of LIFETEEN, sooo much good has come to our parish as a result of this program. i know, i went through it, and i am involved in music ministry now. soo many things to say. several teens have gone from life here and taken youth ministry to their new homes (schools), others have gone off to work with NET, many many many young men are very serious in their discernment of priesthood now (one of our previous core team members is now at Mt Angel), our parish has started 24/7 adoration, mission trips......... the list goes on and on. i don't know if any of this is making sense, kinda haven't slept for pretty much the entire weekend, spendin soo much time prayin', talkin', playin', and jammin' with a group of mostly high school guys from the parish. Pax Christi vobiscum!!!!!
littleflower+JMJ Posted October 25, 2004 Posted October 25, 2004 its been interesting hearing and seeing from LT members, and hearing their concerns from those who are in and using the program......... i plan on going to a LT mass soon.....now that the abuses stopped...lol but yeah, by its fruits it is shown....as all things are.... pax.
wopsim Posted October 25, 2004 Posted October 25, 2004 mass is sooo awesome!!!! 4 sacraments in one service!!! two teens joining the chuch cause we were able to reach out to them via LIFETEEN!!!! God is sooooooooo good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! soo many people excited about Jesus!!!!!!!! things be happinin' here in "o-town", and Christ is at the center of it!!!!!!
toledo_jesus Posted October 25, 2004 Posted October 25, 2004 I have a different philosophy of 'youth' I guess. I think playing with the Mass is the wrong approach to educating people my age. Regardless of this happy approval of lifeteen there were changes to the Mass, and to the attitude of Mass. What really bugs me about it is the attitude that would lead to changing the Mass. Are we there for us? No, we are there for Christ. So why do we change the Mass instead of changing ourselves? Why do we make it about us, yet again? Ugh. I would say, all of you who are advocates of lifeteen, don't turn up your noses at the fact that abuses did occur. I don't even know why I'm arguing. If it leads to kids getting religious, then wonderful. I still don't trust it.
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