LIFETEEN

[cmotherofpirl]

You are missing the point: there should have been no abusees in the FIRST place.

And there is a difference between having a Mass for people who speak different languages, and having a Mass that plays to teenagers. Supposedly we speak the same language. What heppens when these teens grow up and they aren't "special "anymore and they get a parish that is so-so and the homilies are not inspired.? Are they for Jesus or for entertainment.

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='Scofizzle' date='Oct 20 2004, 03:19 PM'] For our LIFETEEN Mass we have better music and homilies that teens can relate to more. They need it, and if you dont work with youth you wont understand. Our youth today are imersed in a culture that many people have no idea about. The are constantly bombarded with sin and if I can help in anyway to help provide an enviroment where they can meet God face to face in the Eucharist. I'm gunna do it. [/quote]
For 1970 years of Church history there was no need for a "Teen Mass". The things that were changed by lifeteen were not in fact allowed to be changed as has been proven by others on here (such as altar gathering nonsense). The whole notion of separating Masses for different age groups, lifestyles, jobs, etc, is completely contrary to a proper Catholic view of what the liturgy is supposed to be.

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='FiZzGiG' date='Oct 20 2004, 03:11 PM']
A person in Mexico is different person from a person in America, correct?
A teenage person is different from an adult person also.

[/quote]
No! Here is the fundamental error. Human nature does not change, cannot change.

[quote]Also, did the Church not change from Latin to English so that people could understand the Mass?[/quote]


This is not, in fact correct, either. Vatican II called for the allowance of the vernacular for certain parts of Mass. It also demanded that Latin be retained as the official liturgical language and that Gregorian Chant be given pride of place in litugical music. So even within the context of the Novus Ordo, you are incorrect.

Furthermore, they did more than just translate the Old MAss into the vernacular. As Dust himself pointed out recently, the entire structure of the Mass was changed, large parts being eliminated entirely. But this has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

[toledo_jesus]

I agree with cmom about the entertainment. It's hard to develop a real concept of what is occurring at the Mass. turning to entertainment only makes it more difficult.

Teens should take pride in being taught as intellectuals and rational adults, not as children who need to be coddled into worship.

[FiZzGiG]

Yes, the abuses should have never happened. But if you keep condeming LIFETEEN program for its abuses in the past, you might as well condemn the whole Catholic Church. It's had its share of abuses in the past as well. (Look into the antics of Pope Alexander IV; take a look at the several Inquisitions as well; and nepotism, pluralism, absenteeism, nicolaitism, etc.)
That's why I still go to LIFETEEN even though it had abuses! I didn't leave the Catholic Church when I figured out how corrupt it was around the Renaissance period. Besides, LIFETEEN is CATHOLIC. It's not Muslim or Gnostic or Protestant. It is ROMAN CATHOLIC. Just keep that in mind! (It's not trying to twist the Church's teachings!!!!!!)

And we are not being "coddled" into worship. I take offense at that. I didn't go to LIFETEEN because it was "easier" or it was "more entertaining." I went because I could relate to what they talked about at Mass. The music had more to do with my life and how my relationship was with God. I could understand and relate. Also, every once and a while, we need a change-up! How would you like it if the same priest said Mass for your WHOLE life? Okay... well, some might like it, but what if it was the priest with the LONGEST homilies? You'd want to see a different priest once and a while, right? Well going to Mass for 9 years of my life wasn't increasing my faith life. It decreased it, because it became so drawling--I didn't understand it. LIFETEEN turned my life around, so I understand now. Now, I love ALL Masses!!! I mean, many times I would rather go to regular Mass, because through LIFETEEN, I could fully appreciate it and put my whole heart into it!

I understand where ya'll are coming from though, no worries. My mother was incredibly sceptical about LIFETEEN. She didn't like it at all. But she saw the change in me and my faith life, and she started to consider it. Now she approves of it and even likes it! (She still prefers traditional Mass though--and many times so do I).
Plus, LIFETEEN can't be that bad if you can meet people like Bob (Righteous B) through it. He has to be one of the most amazing people I've ever met.

Sorry for the long post. But it's hard to see the one thing that made me closest to God and the Catholic Church been get bashed.

~Kerry~

[littleflower+JMJ]

the Mass isn't suppose to be determined by perferances...because that is not what the mass is about..

you can't compare it to languages of the mass (i.e spanish) because your talknig about apples and oranges when doing so....

[egamirorrim]

[quote name='Duc_In_Altum' date='Oct 19 2004, 05:51 PM'] anyone know what MEH is yet?

-Joe [/quote]
alright Joe, I'll humor your question...it's actually quite an easy one to answer.... meh is sort of like this: ...well :shrug:, I don't really like it, I don't really dislike it, whatever.
as in it doesn't really inspire enthusiasm...but it doesn't make you angry

[egamirorrim]

life teen changed my life......I was a non practicing catholic...I don't think my mother even bothered trying to make me go to mass for about a year and a half till one Sunday in about 6th grade I was like "Mom, can we go to the mass for the teen thing?"So my mom was like, "...alright Danielle," and let me go, but didn't let me get communion (I didn't know why at that point). I decided after being at that mass I wanted to start going to mass again (I felt there was definitely something I was missing out on) so I went to confession with my mom the next weekend....and I went to Life Teen again that same weekend...and from that day on I haven't missed a single sunday mass....I also came to respect and adore the whole of the mass from my experience with Life Teen. I realized the true beauty of ANY mass, and now I regularly attend daily mass at St. Louis Abbey with the monks, and it is one of the most beautiful parts of my week.....well, actually....its the MOST beautiful. I owe my reverence, and my coming back to the church, to Life Teen, without it, I wouldn't be where I am today.

[SevenSorrows]

I have seen many good points, but most are missing the big picture. Yes lifeteen may have done many good things, that just shows us that God can work through bad and corrupt things. Just because good has come from what they have done does not justify the bad.

As for people saying we can't judge them on the past and that they have changed. Well it JUST happened. They have been around for 20 years, they seem to have been founded on abuses. They cared SOOO much about bringing youth to the church, that they stopped caring about "the Church". That would be like Catholics saying.....let's have a protestant service because that would bring more youth.

I have no problem with guitar/drums/bass in church, even though at times it may not be reverent....but as long as they are following the rules it is ok.

But as for blatent abuses that lifeteen not only ignored, but claimed to not even be abuses when ANYONE who spent 5 minutes reading about could easily find out. How can you trust an organization that ignores church teaching. Yes they did comply...but it is only because they "had" to. They obviously didn't care since 20 years and 1000's of complaints didn't matter.

They have good intentions, but that is about it.

Yes they interest some kids with loud music...but what happens when the music is over?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='FiZzGiG' date='Oct 20 2004, 10:06 PM'] Yes, the abuses should have never happened. But if you keep condeming LIFETEEN program for its abuses in the past, you might as well condemn the whole Catholic Church. It's had its share of abuses in the past as well. (Look into the antics of Pope Alexander IV; take a look at the several Inquisitions as well; and nepotism, pluralism, absenteeism, nicolaitism, etc.)
That's why I still go to LIFETEEN even though it had abuses! I didn't leave the Catholic Church when I figured out how corrupt it was around the Renaissance period. Besides, LIFETEEN is CATHOLIC. It's not Muslim or Gnostic or Protestant. It is ROMAN CATHOLIC. Just keep that in mind! (It's not trying to twist the Church's teachings!!!!!!)

And we are not being "coddled" into worship. I take offense at that. I didn't go to LIFETEEN because it was "easier" or it was "more entertaining." I went because I could relate to what they talked about at Mass. The music had more to do with my life and how my relationship was with God. I could understand and relate. Also, every once and a while, we need a change-up! How would you like it if the same priest said Mass for your WHOLE life? Okay... well, some might like it, but what if it was the priest with the LONGEST homilies? You'd want to see a different priest once and a while, right? Well going to Mass for 9 years of my life wasn't increasing my faith life. It decreased it, because it became so drawling--I didn't understand it. LIFETEEN turned my life around, so I understand now. Now, I love ALL Masses!!! I mean, many times I would rather go to regular Mass, because through LIFETEEN, I could fully appreciate it and put my whole heart into it!

I understand where ya'll are coming from though, no worries. My mother was incredibly sceptical about LIFETEEN. She didn't like it at all. But she saw the change in me and my faith life, and she started to consider it. Now she approves of it and even likes it! (She still prefers traditional Mass though--and many times so do I).
Plus, LIFETEEN can't be that bad if you can meet people like Bob (Righteous B) through it. He has to be one of the most amazing people I've ever met.

Sorry for the long post. But it's hard to see the one thing that made me closest to God and the Catholic Church been get bashed.

~Kerry~ [/quote]
WE are not bashing it - we are simply worried about the consequences. I have kids leaving my church all the time for the cult down the road that offer flashing lights, catchy christian music, and "once saved your saved" and do what you want philosphy. They pay a youth minister 30,000 a year, hav a gym open every night etc - the kids are constantly after our churchs kids and look on them as trophys.

Try explaining to a kid today that Church is not supposed to be like MTV, that religion is not a feel good -be happy thing. Many kids go to Lifeteen for the feeling and miss the theology. We can't get thru life on a feeling religion - when the feelings go religion goes as well.

[ I hope this makes sense I am running on 3 hours of sleep this week cause of the haunted house.]

[StColette]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Oct 21 2004, 09:33 AM'] WE are not bashing it  - we are simply worried about the consequences. I have kids leaving my church all the time for the cult down the road that offer flashing lights, catchy christian music, and "once saved your saved" and do what you want philosphy. They  pay a youth minister 30,000 a year, hav a gym open every night etc  - the kids are constantly after our churchs kids and look on them as trophys.

Try explaining to a kid today that Church is not supposed to be like MTV, that religion is not a feel good  -be happy thing. Many kids go to Lifeteen for the feeling and miss the theology. We can't get thru life on a feeling religion - when the feelings go  religion goes as well.

[ I hope this makes sense I am running on 3 hours of sleep this week  cause of the haunted house.] [/quote]
That made a ton of sense Cmom!! and it's truly an awesome post and I couldn't agree more!

Edited October 21, 2004 by StColette

[LiL Kat Said]

I think alot of people here make the assumption that us kids only go to Lifeteen because it's loud and fun. Yes, It is true that the music and attitude is what first draws us to Life teen but, atleast for me and my friends it was the truth, the bible studies, the lifeNIGHTS that called me back to the church.
Sure the music is great and the people are cool but once you go to a few lifeteen masses, lifenights, or livewires(bible studies), You realize what's really going on and come to love the church, her teachings, and what really happens at mass.
Now I acctually choose to go to mass everyweek and not just the lifeteen mass either. although i do feel that at the lifeteen mass and lifenights it's a place where i can share my love for Jesus Christ, read the bible openly, or pray the rosary without getting weird stares from my family and classmates.

I think if people give it a chance and don't just judge on what they see at first they will realize that Life teen is great and it draws kids to True Catholic Church

[jasJis]

It's safe to say that the vast majority of those bashing LifeTeen only have a superficial or limited experience with it. Even the Altar Gather (it's not an Altar Call) was being used as a teaching tool to enlighten about the Real Presence, something that we all know many Catholics are poorly catechized about.

The Church has always incorporated culture in it's Mass with the type of songs, prayers, etc. The structure is the same, with different windows. The only question was if the Altar Gather was changing the window or structure. The Church, with patience that is rooted in confidence in the Holy Spirt, dealt with the Altar Gather appropriately. It allowed the Bishops to make a local call and reserved a decision until it fuly considered the matter. It made the decision that it's not to be done, and the LifeTeen program happily embraced it and made the proper corrections.

Just as the song selection and music style might be different when the Pope celebrates Mass at World Youth Day then his normal mass in St. Peter's.

[FiZzGiG]

AMEN jasJis!!

[FiZzGiG]

Also I just wanted to put out that Catholic means "universal."
We are a universal Church!!!! That encompasses everything! People have used their original practices to understand Churches teachings for YEARS! Go read the Anglo-Saxon poem of The Dream of the Rood--the poet uses his old Anlgo-Saxon beliefs to better undestand Christianity. We learned about it in English! LIFETEEN takes what we as teens know, and they put it with Church teachins so we understand.
The Church wants to welcome teens, so they allowed LIFETEEN. If it's so wrong, why does the Church still allow it? Also, as Catholics we are forgiving people. If indeed LIFETEEN had such terrible "abuses," they should forgiven, for it too is a Catholic institution.

And Cmom, I totally understand. Yes when I first saw LIFETEEN, I was sort of taken aback at how radical it was. I wondered if it was legitimate. But the thing is: it is. And religion is about theology, but it's also about your relationship with Christ! LIFETEEN teaches about BOTH. One LIFENIGHT was completely focused on transubstantiation--one of the most significant (if not most significant) Catholic teachings.
The supposed "flashiness" that you see, is the outer appearance. The essence of LIFETEEN is Catholicism -- in a way that allows teens to understand. LIFETEEN teaches the essential Catholic teachings.
It's opening teens up to Catholicism--it's being universal!