cmotherofpirl Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 sigh I work with youth and yes you need programs for them educationally , no you do not need a special Mass for them. That is insulting, like saying they are not capable of going to Mass with the grown ups and getting it - young people have been going to Mass for 2000 years, so is this generation so unfit they don't get it? Please don't assume because a bishop oks something it is ok. Please explain how you get four Sacraments in one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 [quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Oct 25 2004, 08:12 AM'] If it leads to kids getting religious, then wonderful. [/quote] But at what cost? A what are we willing to "set aside" in order to make the Church more attractive? I would argue that kids are not being attracted to the Church (yes there are exceptions, but exceptions do not make the rule), but to some pop version that does not last. They will eventually get bored with it, when the emotional high wears off. It cannot sustain a "dark night". Once bored with it, they will leave, knowing deep down that there must be something more than that, but thinking that if there was surely the bishops and priests would have told them. And for the record, so that my argument cannot be dismissed as disconected with reality, I have been involved with teen activities and teens in general for close to ten years. I've seen it happen too many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Oct 25 2004, 08:23 AM'] you do not need a special Mass for them. That is insulting, like saying they are not capable of going to Mass with the grown ups and getting it - young people have been going to Mass for 2000 years, so is this generation so unfit they don't get it? [/quote] Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 THe world must be coming to an end, we are in agreement again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Oct 25 2004, 08:28 AM'] THe world must be coming to an end, we are in agreement again. [/quote] Oh, how I long for the good old days of bitter disputes . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 (edited) I completely agree with both Cmom and PSPX. Edited October 25, 2004 by toledo_jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wopsim Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 [quote]"Please explain how you get four Sacraments in one?"[/quote] gladly there is a teen who has a brain tumor that is going in for surgery this week. he and his sister were baptised, confirmed and recived their first Eucharist. he also recieved anointing of the sick and that is how there was 4 sacraments this last week at mass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duc_In_Altum Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 [quote]I would argue that kids are not being attracted to the Church (yes there are exceptions, but exceptions do not make the rule), but to some pop version that does not last. They will eventually get bored with it, when the emotional high wears off. It cannot sustain a "dark night". Once bored with it, they will leave, knowing deep down that there must be something more than that, but thinking that if there was surely the bishops and priests would have told them. [/quote] I definately hear where you're coming from. This is something that a true leader needs to keep a close eye on in a program. It certainly can be a very emotional ministry and feelings are like chaff in the wind. Its emotional because teens are "feeling" close to God for the first time ever. I've heard so many kids as they progress in the program, talk about how they don't feel anything anymore. They feel as if they have gone stale as feelings taper off. As in a properly run program, the (properly trained) youth minister or priest should address this stagnant feeling. Within the program, "faith on feelings" should be addressed and dismissed with a new way of thinking and reckoning faith. My youth minister (back in the day) did really well with this and there grew a huge loyalty to the church because of it. Through that kind of strong and logical leadership, i've seen far more teens come attatched at the hip to the Church than fall away. In a properly run program, teens don't just leave once they're bored with it. I've seen a lot of bored teens struggle through the staleness and with good direction, so many more come out of it stronger. If the coordinators of the program address the failing feelings with a more mature aspect as they see teens grow, a lot of good can be done. That is definately a speed bump that a lot of lifeteen teens experience, but once they get over it through solid leadership and prayer, a new kind of faith and loyalty regardless of feelings burns in them. Lifeteen programs can certainly be emotional, but when the program is run properly, teens can grow to look past that shallowness that they were once attracted to and finally embrace their true cross. I know i did. So many others did too. In a five year ministry, my lifeteen program had drawn hundreds back to the Church and 16 religious vocations. Not to look at stats, but that truth gives me strength in discerning my own vocation. Blessed be God. In faith, hope, and Christ, -Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiL Kat Said Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 For the people who have worked with teens and say that they've seen the teens lose interest and say that they don't have the "emotional high" anymore, I'm sorry for those teens and they will be in my prayers. I think one of the reasons this might have happened is because maybe your youth program showed only the "fun" stuff and the kids couldn't get into the important things and realize the truth of the programs. i know that at my church it is certainly the atmosphere of the program that draws the teens to come to church but it is the truth and greatness of the mass and our church that keeps the teens there. Although i respect everyone's opinions on LIFETEEN here, I'm honestly shocked with some of the things said.... I think that some of them have made me really dislike phatmass in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scofizzle Posted October 25, 2004 Author Share Posted October 25, 2004 well said Doc IN Atum.... [quote] sigh [/quote] I didn't mean it like it sounded Cmom.....I was just saying that those who do not work with the youth at all may not completely understand what we are talkin about. I know that LIFE TEEN is not the end all be all of youth ministry, but it is a good thing. I dont have a lot of time right now but ill be back on later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rate128 Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 [quote name='popestpiusx' date='Oct 25 2004, 07:26 AM'] I would argue that kids are not being attracted to the Church (yes there are exceptions, but exceptions do not make the rule), but to some pop version that does not last. They will eventually get bored with it, when the emotional high wears off. It cannot sustain a "dark night". Once bored with it, they will leave, knowing deep down that there must be something more than that, but thinking that if there was surely the bishops and priests would have told them. [/quote] You may have seen it happen a lot too. So have I. But that doesn't mean that no teens are drawn in to the true beatuy of the Chruch. But I have also seen, many times, that teens stick it out. Once the emotional high goes away, there are so many teens that don't just leave. We all have to keep in mind here that each Life Teen program is run differently. Each youth minister has a different personality, and each one handles teens differently. This is my fourth year as a life-teener, and I've been though so many ups and downs, as many of my friends have. You can call us exceptions if you want, I guess. But the chances that teens stay with the Chruch are much higher after they go though the Life Teen Confirmation prep than those who go through the other version, which is the Sunday morning classes. My parrish offers this, I don't know if any others do. No, Life Teen does not have one hundred percent of it's teens coming back year after year. But does any other youth program? A large percentage of the popluation who call themselfs Catholic do not attend Mass on a regular basis. Adults, I'm sure, go though the same thing that you accuse Life Teen teens of. The teens that do stick around though the tough times become stronger in their faith than ever imagined. How that can be seen as an irresponsiblity on Life Teen's part is beyond me. It's our job to build up the Kingdom together, any way possible, instead of tearing eachother down like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 nobody is tearing anybody down. A criticism of the organization is not an attack on the faith or dedication of its members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 [quote name='rate128' date='Oct 25 2004, 05:40 PM'] You may have seen it happen a lot too. So have I. But that doesn't mean that no teens are drawn in to the true beatuy of the Chruch. [/quote] Re-read my post. You will see the following statement: [quote]yes there are exceptions, but exceptions do not make the rule[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 I don't think that using contemporary music at mass is a bad thing. God knows it can't be worse than all the carp I was forced to endure in the 80's. "Come dance in the forest and play in the fields" . . . bleagh!! Anyway, I would like to point out for the record that whatever the merits of LifeTeen, on thing should be certain . . . if kids are coming to Christ in Confession, Eucharist, Adoration, prayer, and charity, then I'm all for it. However, the point isn't LIFE TEEN or not LIFE TEEN, the point is Christ. You know what I've noticed about LifeTeen parishes? The ones with the success stories always have passionate, devoted, holy people in charge. The fact is that in helping young people to know Christ it's not about the program, it's about the person who offers them a life, who offers them a witness of the Christian life in all its intensity. Pray for LIFE TEEN, pray for Youth Ministers, and pray for teens. Pray that Christ can be communicated with all the passion and intensity of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wopsim Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 i really liked the beauty in that response Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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