Kerry

[Guest Aluigi]

you know what I'm doin, I'm writing this idea into a resolution and bill for student congress in argumentation class. that should be interesting.

[Good Friday]

[quote name='Aluigi']anyway, i'm likin the fact that i just made up this original idea of age limit stuff, and i'm a teen so it's not like i'm biased. maybe it would work?  i don't know...[/quote]
What about teen parents?

[Guest Aluigi]

hmm.. maybe you get less only if you live with your parents... o darn, yeah i think this is falling apart. But minimum wage hiking still isn't looking good to me. I don't know exactly what needs to be done, only that something should be done.

[qfnol31]

I think Al is trying to say that maybe Kerry should raise the minimum wage for the middle age workers. Personally, I could see this as bad because then small businesses, especially fast food restaurants, will hire more teens.

Also, if the minimum wage is raised for everyone, then the same businesses I mention before must be more choosy, and chances are they'll go with older, more experienced, and more reliable workers. In this case, teens won't be hired as often, and adults will have to work much more to compensate for what their teens could have made. It's actually kinda a problem in Spain where there is no minimum wage.

[CatholicforChrist]

GF, sorry since the thread is entitled "Kerry and Minimum Wage" I figured that was the point of the debate. In reply to your question concerning what I will do to fulfill the commands of Pope Leo XIII in [i]Rerum Novarum [/i](among other documents), I see almost no viable solution in the present crisis as a result of industrialization. If we raise the minimum wage, we will be offering a living wage for some but will be depriving some of any money whatsoever (including those who need it to survive) because there would be job cuts. It is problematic, indeed. I only wish there were a way to amend the system instead of trying to work within it. Is there any way to ensure that everyone who needs a living wage can obtain one? If we raise the minimum wage, we help some people to get a better wage, but we also indirectly deprive some of having any wage whatsoever. It is a catch-22. What do you suggest?

Edit: by the way, GF, I hope your last comment was not an allusion to William Jennings Bryan's Cross of Gold blasphemy (speech), but the fact that you even allude to any crucifixion in analyzing the conditions of the poor in this country borders on blasphemy in itself.

Edited October 29, 2004 by CatholicforChrist

[Good Friday]

[quote name='CatholicforChrist']I only wish there were a way to amend the system instead of trying to work within it. Is there any way to ensure that everyone who needs a living wage can obtain one? If we raise the minimum wage, we help some people to get a better wage, but we also indirectly deprive some of having any wage whatsoever. It is a catch-22. What do you suggest?[/quote]
I suggest the complete destruction of capitalism, in favor of a system that is more Christian. Of course, I'm not suggesting that it be replaced by communism or socialism. But surely there is something else? Is capitalism really all we have to work with? If so, God help the world -- and especially the Third World.

Of course, that suggestion isn't feasible. Capitalism has gained too strong a foothold to ever be destroyed now.

[qfnol31]

Actually, that's Pope Leo XIII speaking. I think John Paul II agrees too.

[CatholicforChrist]

GF, I agree with you completely, then, in that respect. I wish capitalism could be destroyed (with communism and socialism, too), and the feudal system re-implemented, but this is impossible. This would mean a return to the agrarian system and would entail various other changes. Feudalism dominated almost exclusively by villages is the only true Catholic system that has worked in the past. This, of course, only was possible during the reign of Christendom in which the Church had rule and the world was united with one mind under Catholicism. If only this were possible today.

Edit: Qfnol, the "edit" of my previous post was directed to GF, not you. Sorry for any confusion.

Edited October 29, 2004 by CatholicforChrist

[Guest Aluigi]

perhaps there is some way to make a new workable Catholic system applicable to the times? I think I'm going to try to invent a system that works through capitalism but achieves a better Catholic system somehow. it could be doable...

[CatholicforChrist]

Well, as far as I understand it (and I think this is the traditional stance by the Chuch), capitalism is erroneous in itself (not necessarily as evil as socialism and communism) but still erroneous and possibly evil. Unadulterated capitalism is just as evil as socialism and communism. As far as I know, capitalism as a system (even a modified system) is still erroneous, but it could be a good intermediary step toward a true Catholic system

[qfnol31]

This would be a fun discussion for AIM, and even a new topic.

[Guest Aluigi]

1 WHEREAS the current federal minimum wage in insufficient to live on, and,
2 WHEREAS increasing the minimum wage causes job loss, and,
3 WHEREAS some independent Americans are forced to take minimum wage jobs, and,
4 WHEREAS these Americans compete for job opportunities with dependent Americans, and,
5 WHEREAS dependent and independent Americans are paid the same minimum wage
6 BE IT RESOLVED by the House of Representatives in the Student Congress here assembled
7 that: independent Americans be granted a higher minimum wage while dependent Americans' minimum wage is decreased
8 while preferred job opportunities in minimum wage jobs are given to them.


yeah i really couldn't think of anything better to do for this resolution i havta write anyway (i'm pretty sure we're not supposed to do common ones like abortion or anything)

Edited October 29, 2004 by Aluigi

[Guest T-Bone]

Here's an idea:

Let's require that all products imported to America be made in compliance with US Labor Law (Wages, Workplace Safety, the Whole Kit and Kaboodle), plus the corporations have to pay the increased costs of inforcing compliance.

Now:

Foreign Production + Shipping < US Production



With this idea:

Foreign Production + Compliance Inforcement + Shipping > Domestic Production

[cmotherofpirl]

I'm liking that idea T-bone.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

Raising minimum wage = more layoffs, less people working, higher unemployment, low job creation.

[jasJis]

What jobs pay minimum wage? Even here in Florida, known for cheap labor, a part time phone receptionist with no skills other than a speaking voice can get paid $8. I hire laborers with no skills other than a driver license for $10/hr, free insurance, vacation, 401k.

Only the most unskilled jobs would pay minimum. People aren't likely to keep them. How lazy and unmotivated must you be to get paid minimum wage for any length of time. One certainly are using God given talents to their advantage. God helps those who help themselves. Everyday I see people taking advantage of the system. I have a guy who works part time for me and part time elsewhere. He owes back taxes because he didn't pay them. He get's free medical care from the county (we pay 1/2% sales tax for this) and lives in his daughter's converted garage w/ ac, water, etc. He has more money to pisss away a week than I do, but I can't afford to go to the Dr until I get insurance in a few weeks and I have to pay $100 per week for it. I don't qualify for free or reduced medical care, etc., etc. What's fair about that?

Minimum wage as a living wage is a lie. NOBODY lives on just that. If there are legitimate reasons you can't work, there is free/subsidized food, housing, clothing, medical care, etc., available for you. What's a "living" wage? Enough money to buy minimal food, clothing, and shelter or enough money for AC, cable, internet, fast food, Nike shoes, clotes from Ambercrombie, & a gameboy?

Minimum wage jobs are entry level jobs with high turn-over that do not require skills. People who do them gain skills and experience and develop a history of dependebility that allows them to go elsewhere at a better pay. Minimum wage jobs are not meant for people to live off of for years. You'd have to be extremely mentally challenged if that's all you can do and we have aid programs to help those who absolutely can't do better, it's not about those who won't do better.

[Balthazor]

Raising the minimum wage is a nice idea...but in the end it is a vicious circle. The companies and buisiness owners aren't going to absorb the cost they are going to pass it off to the consumer. Which means the cost of living will rise. Which means we will look and say "we need to raise minimum wage"......this is a simplified version.....because I hate typing long posts.
But you get the Idea.

Balthazor

[Ricky2]

I agree wholheartedly with the last 3 posts. I would also add that most labor contracts have a minumum wage clause in them which provide for automatic increases in wages whenever the minumum wage is raised - so if the minum wage goes up a buck - the union janitor making 15 an hour automatically goes to 16. This is why labor unions always support raising the minumum wage and support politicians who promise it.
Ricky2

[J.R.D]

Wheather yall like to admit it or not .... with Bush in office Priceses in everything will go up and up only because hes a republican .... there is no such thing as a poor republican..... With kerry in office yea minum wage will go up and mess carp up but at least there will be more jobs and LESS STRESS ON THE POOR

[qfnol31]

Actually, if you read the thread, the point (and seeming common belief) is that there will be less jobs and more strain on the poor with Kerry.