The rainbow sash movement

[ironmonk]

[quote name='crusader1234' date='Nov 13 2004, 06:07 PM'] How is it that three people that are openly sinners and people who openly reject the teachings of the Church are allowed to receive communion? [/quote]
My guess is liberal priests... "it's between them and God"....

I love our priests... but the liberal ones need to realize that they need to be the Fathers in Christ that they were called to be. A father teachings the children when they are wrong, fathers do not let their children continue in error unless they do not love them.

Please, remind our liberal priests of this... it seems that they forget.

I know that any good Catholic will want to be taught what the Church teaches, not speculative theology.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[ironmonk]

[quote name='foundsheep' date='Nov 13 2004, 06:10 PM'] [img]http://archives.cnn.com/2000/SHOWBIZ/Music/05/19/wb.hiphop/llcoolj.jpg[/img]

Monk that made me think of the song "Mama said knock you out!" [/quote]
LOL... That's a great song to workout to.

God Bless,
ironmonk

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='crusader1234' date='Nov 13 2004, 04:07 PM'] How is it that three people that are openly sinners and people who openly reject the teachings of the Church are allowed to receive communion? [/quote]
I don't know.

[crusader1234]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Nov 13 2004, 04:19 PM'] My guess is liberal priests... "it's between them and God".... [/quote]
I actually sort of agree - it is between them (homosexuals) and God - but when they're wearing the rainbow sashes thats giving the Priest the evidence that otherwise only God would have. If people are going to sin, thats between them and God. If people are going to wear sashes that say 'I'm in a state of mortal sin' and then priests give them communion, doesn't that put the Priest in a state of sin for desecrating the sacrament?

[homeschoolmom]

To me, wearing the sash is like flipping the bird at God.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Nov 13 2004, 03:52 PM'] You would be amazed at how open to reason the foolish are after a good pummeling.



that unjust agressor can learn through loosing a fight.


[/quote]


Politically incorrect, but then again so am I!!

[DancesforLove]

I have no problem with gay people, I think that something is VERY wrong with what they do.
I think gay people who ask to receive commuion and attend church are just trying piss people off though, they are pushing the limits to say HEY I'M GAY LOOK AT ME, I'm gonna cause a problem.
No one can be Catholic and believe that they themselves are going to Hell, it doesn't work that way. You can't believe that all people like you are going to go to Hell by the beliefs of your religion, it doesn't work that way.

What bugs me so much is, gay people are not special or really different, do I run around going Hey I'm straight I like boys. Do I flaunt my sexuality, NO, and you know what straight girls that flaunt their sexuality are called what?!? trashy is the nicest I can put, so why is it different if your gay and run around letting everyone know, those people are just as trashy as the girls.
Your sexuality is a private matter, I don't want to know what you prefer keep it to yourself, simple as that.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='RandomProddy' date='Nov 13 2004, 04:29 AM'] He didn't get mad at the Roman soldiers defiling His body... [/quote]
They were doing what He needed them to do...the people in the temple believed in God and so I think that is what Jesus took issue with. Professing to be a believer yet acting in ways that are known to be displeasing to God.
By the way, when I said I would pummel them I meant that if I saw this behavior in person I would put a stop to it by said pummelling. I wouldn't just do it on principle. haha, I just had a thought about me as the Punisher only with a Phatmass T-shirt, instead of the skull.

[foundsheep]

[quote name='Norseman82' date='Nov 13 2004, 11:45 PM']

Politically incorrect, but then again so am I!! [/quote]

[ironmonk]

[quote name='crusader1234' date='Nov 13 2004, 06:33 PM'] If people are going to wear sashes that say 'I'm in a state of mortal sin' and then priests give them communion, doesn't that put the Priest in a state of sin for desecrating the sacrament? [/quote]
Yes.

I'm sure you all know of St. Pio. Probably the most Holy man in the past 500 years.

He did talk and walk with Christ, Mary, his guardian angel, etc...
He did fight with Satan and his minions. Not like you and I have to deal with them, but they were physically in his room.

Some may say "i don't believe that"... but it doesn't make the fact that it happened less true.... some may ask... "How do you know".

Simple...
He was a man that prayed the Rosary around 60 times a day.
He was a Priest who was obedient.
He was extremely poor.
He dedicated his life to Christ.
He accomplished so much in his lifetime, without any money... because of him a hospital was built... among many other things.
He could read the souls of people... when people went to confession, he knew why they were there. He could tell them their sins. Thousands if not tens of thousands of people went to him for confession.
He had the wounds of Christ. He was under observation for weeks at a time and it was verified that he was not causing the wounds, and no one could explain the wounds... doctors became Catholic over the wounds.

A man like that will not and cannot lie... St. Pio lived our faith... he was a man that became prayer... A man like that that knew the sins of thousands of people is not crazy... A man like that has the Stigmata as a sign to those of us who doubt might strengthen our faith. It would be foolish and faithless to believe that St. Pio was anything other than what he claimed to be.


I first needed to establish of how right St. Pio was on things... Now, to my point in all of this...

If I remember what I read correctly, someone came up to take communion in the state of mortal sin, he denied the person communion and said something like "You would have me desecrate our Lord?!"

That's all the evidence I need to know that any priest who knowingly gives communion to those that they know are in mortal sin, gives us all reasons to cry.


God Bless,
ironmonk

Edited November 14, 2004 by ironmonk

[track2004]

I think that gay people should go to church. They should receive communion if they think they are in the state of grace they ought to be in. I sin, sometimes I sin really baddly, but I still go and I still receive if I merit myself worthy. For the purpose of this conversation I really think The Church needs to do a better job educating it's people about how to be free of sin for communion.

I am a sponsor in RICA and my canidate is gay. She desires the Eucharist because she understands what His sacrifice has meant in her life. I told her I disapprove of her being with other girls, and I also told her that I love her no matter what she does. She understands that some things seperate us from God because we turn our backs on Him. So I'm trusting her to make good decisions. She struggles every day with being gay and Catholic, but she is diligently trying to uphold The Life she has been called to.

We are talking about people here. I know that Phatmass has never been PC, and that's how it has thrived, but realize that these are real people, people who are struggling to reconsile two conflicting parts of their life. I have to say that part of me is really happy that The Rainbow Sash Movement is still in The Church, they know where the Truth is, they just have a hard time finding acceptance and love with in it.

[XIX]

Those are great, great points ironmonk. The only things I question...how would somebody actually [i]know[/i] that one is in a state of mortal sin? I mean, wouldn't that be making a judgement on another's soul?

[Guest Aluigi]

track, you're doing those ppl no favor by avoiding the subject cause it's hard for them

you need to specifically tell your candidate that for her to do anything with another girl, she would be committing a gravely evil sin and need to go to confession and stop doing that before being in union with the Church. she should know she's called to chastity, probably could use psychological help (it's a psychological disorder), and maybe one day she could be cured, but even if not she's simply like any other single Catholic: called to chastity.

Edited November 14, 2004 by Aluigi

[toledo_jesus]

yeah, if she wants to receive Communion then she needs to hear the hard truth that she'll have to be chaste.
These people are people, sure, but they that doesn't make them Catholic. We can't and won't change our Faith so they can blaspheme with a clean conscience. The Church calls us to change, not the other way around. Rainbow Sash needs to be refocused or done away with.

[CatholicAndFanatical]

[quote]
I sin, sometimes I sin really baddly, but I still go and I still receive if I merit myself worthy
[/quote]

So you confess to yourself and deem yourself worthy of recieving Christ? Sounds protestant to me. If you are in sin and you know you are in sin, you are blaspheming God if you recieve Communion.

Try reading Saint Faustina's book 'Divine Mercy in My Soul'

There Jesus tells her that He hurts bad when people recieve His body and they are in Sin. He would much rather us not recieve Him.


As for these sash wearing morons.

I think it was Cmom that said 'they wont even make it to the Alter'

I would physically Keep them from recieving the Eucharist. Why not?

Its not 'What would Jesus do' but rather 'What would Jesus expect US to do?'

Shame on those that let this junk happen and not stand up for Christ and His Church. This is EXACTLY why there is corruption in the Church. Because people say 'Oh lets just ignore it and turn the cheek' rather than saying 'Excuse me, this is MY Lord you are hurting!'

There is such a thing as Righteous Anger. Jesus had this in the Temple. And this is what we ALL should have when idiot people disrupt Mass and destroy things.

Dont be afraid like some Bishop and Priests are, Stand Up!


ARE YOU READY FOR A WAR!

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='track2004' date='Nov 14 2004, 01:04 PM'] I think that gay people should go to church. They should receive communion if they think they are in the state of grace they ought to be in. I sin, sometimes I sin really baddly, but I still go and I still receive if I merit myself worthy. For the purpose of this conversation I really think The Church needs to do a better job educating it's people about how to be free of sin for communion.

I am a sponsor in RICA and my canidate is gay. She desires the Eucharist because she understands what His sacrifice has meant in her life. I told her I disapprove of her being with other girls, and I also told her that I love her no matter what she does. She understands that some things seperate us from God because we turn our backs on Him. So I'm trusting her to make good decisions. She struggles every day with being gay and Catholic, but she is diligently trying to uphold The Life she has been called to.

We are talking about people here. I know that Phatmass has never been PC, and that's how it has thrived, but realize that these are real people, people who are struggling to reconsile two conflicting parts of their life. I have to say that part of me is really happy that The Rainbow Sash Movement is still in The Church, they know where the Truth is, they just have a hard time finding acceptance and love with in it. [/quote]
The Church is a place for sinners, so we all belong there.
However the Communion line is a place for those people who KNOW they are in a state of grace. You either are or you are not. Mortal sins are not committed by accident.
You cannot go to Holy Communion with a mortal sin on your soul or you condemn youself.

WE ALL struggle to stay out of sin, wether we are have same aex attractions of not. EVERYONE is trying to reconcile conflicts in their life. Nobody gets a free pass thru life when it comes to temptation.

Should we have an adulturer's sash in Church so they find love and acceptance? A fornicaters sash as well? Should we have Mass for particular sins so that psarticular offender "feels" love and acceptance?

Think about about the logic of your argument.

[jmjtina]

[quote name='track2004' date='Nov 14 2004, 11:04 AM']but realize that these are real people, people who are struggling to reconsile two conflicting parts of their life.  I have to say that part of me is really happy that The Rainbow Sash Movement is still in The Church, they know where the Truth is, they just have a hard time finding acceptance and love with in it.[/quote]
[quote][u]One of the "missions" of the Rainbow sash movement:[/u]

We will continue to come forward in the Church, proclaiming publicly that we are Gay and Lesbian people who embrace and [i]celebrate our sexuality [/i]as a Sacred Gift.

[u]And this is one of the things they are asking our Pope to do:[/u]

2. Will you encourage Gay and Lesbian clergy, religious and laity to "Come Out", i.e. to openly acknowledge their sexual orientation, so that our young people may have mentors and role models and so that the rich gifts of all of God's people may be honestly celebrated? Will you guarantee that the ministries, careers and reputations of those who "Come Out" in the Church will be protected
[/quote]


[i][b]They celebrate it. [/b][/i]I don't see them trying to reconcile anything and to say that your happy that the sash movement is in the Church shows how ignorant you are of the Church and the movement you stated you are happy to see.

We all struggle with our crosses. Gay or straight, if your in mortal sin, you can't recieve holy communion. The sash just indicates you ARE living in mortal sin and go against Church teaching, our Pope all the while "celebrating" the sin you live in.

Pax.

[CatholicAndFanatical]

People these days...

still thinking the Church should change for society.

rather than society changing for the Church.

[toledo_jesus]

right. so I think I wouldn't be far off the mark if I pummelled them mercilessly and threw them out the door.

[Ash Wednesday]

It's not always so easy to know whether or not someone is in a state of mortal sin, but these sashies are being openly provocative and politicizing the Mass. That in itself to me is a gravely sinful act.

Lord, have mercy on all of us.