Is there a Population Problem

[aloha918]

i am taking an Enviornmental science class at my college....and the teacher talks a lot of the populatiob problem....and that pretty much contraception is the answer.............being catholic i know that contraception is wrong, but what do i say to him???

[Thy Geekdom Come]

You can tell him that there is indeed a population problem. More than a couple continents are in danger of cutting their population by millions if they don't ban the contraceptives. They have negative growth rates.

[aloha918]

most countries like china, india, haiti, and many african ones have an enormous growthrate were children are like 50% of the people.........the one with the most neg is Japan......

[Socrates]

I'm researching a report on this topic. Europe's population has already begun to decline and is aging rapidly, beacuse its people are not having enough children (average fertiltiy rate - 1.4 children per woman. At least 2.1 is needed to maintain a population at current numbers). Unless there is massive immigration from elsewhere, Europe will not have enough young people to fill jobs to keep the economy strong, or to care for its old people, who already outnumber children 4 to 1 (projected to increase to 6-1 in 50 yrs!)

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='aloha918' date='Nov 30 2004, 03:15 PM'] most countries like china, india, haiti, and many african ones have an enormous growthrate were children are like 50% of the people.........the one with the most neg is Japan...... [/quote]
Nope...not China...they only allow one child per couple.

Ask Azaelia...she'll give you the statistics.

[aloha918]

yes but china stil has 1/6th of the population in this world....its a bit much...granted they have done a lot to control it

[burnsspivey]

[quote name='Raphael' date='Nov 30 2004, 02:17 PM'] Nope...not China...they only allow one child per couple.

Ask Azaelia...she'll give you the statistics. [/quote]
Actually, according to [url="http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=ch&v=24"]this chart[/url] the growth rate still hasn't hit negative numbers yet in China.

As to allowing only 1 child per couple...well, they get a lot of benefits if they only have one child, but they can have more if they so choose.

Edited November 30, 2004 by burnsspivey

[ironmonk]

[quote name='burnsspivey' date='Nov 30 2004, 04:29 PM'] Actually, according to [url="http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=ch&v=24"]this chart[/url] the growth rate still hasn't hit negative numbers yet in China.

As to allowing only 1 child per couple...well, they get a lot of benefits if they only have one child, but they can have more if they so choose. [/quote]
No they can't.

The government will kill their unborn children if they attempt to have more than one, and force the women to be sterilized.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[ironmonk]

Chinese witness: Beijing forces sterilizations, abortions
[url="http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/asiapcf/9806/11/china.abortion/"]http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/asiapcf/9806/11/china.abortion/[/url]

Canada Dumping Tens of Millions into Controversial United Nations Population Control Agency (speaks of china)
[url="http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2004/nov/041129.html"]http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2004/nov/041129.html[/url]

[url="http://www.lifenews.com/nat959.html"]http://www.lifenews.com/nat959.html[/url]


God Bless,
ironmonk

[Sojourner]

Monk,
The first article you cite is from 1998. I found several articles, including [url="http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/3922447.htm"]this one[/url] that support burnsspivey's comment.

p.s.

This is not to say that China's policy hasn't been coercive in the past, but it appears that they've been moving away from that in recent years.

[burnsspivey]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Nov 30 2004, 03:05 PM'] No they can't.

The government will kill their unborn children if they attempt to have more than one, and force the women to be sterilized.


God Bless,
ironmonk [/quote]
Yes, they can.

From [url="http://www.china.org.cn/english/2002/Oct/46138.htm"]China.org[/url]:

[i]First, I'd like to explain China's family planning policy. China's family planning policy is not the "one child policy" as understood by some people. The government advocates each couple to have one child in accordance with the family planning policy. However, any couple facing genuine difficulties, mainly those in rural areas whose first child is a girl, can apply for the birth of second child by going through the necessary formalities. If couples in urban areas are both the product of a one child family they are entitled to produce a second child.

Second, the Population and Family Planning law clearly stipulates that those citizens who give birth to more children than permitted by regulation will have to face the consequences of legally imposed economic penalties.[/i]

Edited November 30, 2004 by burnsspivey

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='Raphael' date='Nov 30 2004, 03:10 PM'] You can tell him that there is indeed a population problem. More than a couple continents are in danger of cutting their population by millions if they don't ban the contraceptives. They have negative growth rates. [/quote]
Thats what I was going to say. lol

[CreepyCrawler]

the problem with the environment being damaged these days is inadequate distribution of wealth and resources and waste. we would have more than enough to go around today, even if china didn't have a one-child policy, if things weren't so unbalanced and we didn't waste our natural resources. did you know that there is a critical mass of people necessary in order to best utilize the environment with the least stress? but world organizations are going into undevelopped countries, telling them no money til they cut their birth rates, forcing, for example, smaller populations to use a destructive and wasteful slash-and-burn farming technique, whereas if they had a critical mass in that country, larger-scale farming could be done without destroying the natural environment. it's really just a narrow view to think, more people equals more problems. tell him to just read a book!!

[Oik]

Okay, for one, here is what we know about the Chinese government...
They lie.
Second,
they lie.
Third, you guessed it,
they lie.

China's coercive population control continues today.

Also, they are still arresting, torturing, and persecuting Catholics.


Aloha, using negative growth rate won't help. Your teach probably will be glad that countries are forcing birth control. The teacher might even be a proponent of zero population growth.

The major myth about population is that we don't have the resources to accomidate the species. The plan fact is that technology is growing so rapidly to accommidate our species that we will never catch up with technology. Genetic modifications to foods and growing allows us to produce more food than we can use.

The problem is distribution. Also, the entire world's population could fit in a space the size of texas with around 1200 square foot a person and still have to entire world left to be inhabited. Even though there isn't a lot of arable land, technological advancements have allowed for man to grow food in places it should be able to be grown. Also, technology allows for man to grow in places not designed for growing (like on the roof of your house in new york city).

[Iacobus]

Okay, let me say this, there will be a population problem (which is coming, and preventable with simple steps).

I have heard things like the pop could fit in TX with 1,200 ft^2 a head, and sure maybe they can. But there are population issues. Namly, not everyone lives in Texas, and even if they did that doesn't mean land would be equaly distrubited.

Moreover, area per capita does not determine carring capitcy. K (if I rember right) is set by amounts of various resources. For example, if you have a small jar and fill it with small fish and they reproudce and so forth, and you merely stand aside, the jar will reach K and than exceed K. K is exceeded when the water is polluted (waste from fish) and oxygen deprived, causing all the fish, or at least most, to die.

This is the basis of the statment about Earth's K being less than 6,000,000,000. There is only so much of this and that, for simplicity most say wheat/food, avialbe. This is limited by the amount of farmable land.

E.O. Wilson, I think, was the one who had an article about the grain shortage in central China. Staticialy it is impossible for the US or Russia or the EU or the UN or anyone to pump enough grain into central China and still mange to feed their own populations. Thus, showing that the death from K shall soon arrive.

Also, in reply to the arguement that "places not designed for growing, ie roofs, could offset this imbalance." That is just wishful thinking. The net imbalance would be huge. We are not talking a few tons, but 1000's or more tons of grain. If everyone that could grow grain on the roof of his house it would be hard to arrive at the value needed.

Genetic mods are not the answer either. Firstly, many EU nations have banned them for being unsafe. There has been little study on them, but there has been enough that a large number of people think GMO's are unsafe. Mixing a fish and a orange (which has happened) sounds scary to me. Moreover, we aren't sure how well we can control it. There are different "grades" of food.

I would not have a blind faith in technology. The GOP spending bill just placed a huge cut on science funding.

Disturbtion is an issue, talk about fecial snow in Mexico City. Can you say Pandemic waiting to happen?

So in short yes, overpopulation is a problem. I think K for Earth is being approached, and yes I am thinking there is an answer that doesn't use BC or abortion. It is four letters long. CARE.

A person in an LDC is likly to have a huge number of children over someone in an MDC. The avg live birth for a women in an MDC is 1.9, with a 2.1 rate of pregencies. In LDCs the number is much higher, I want to think it was around 3.7. The cause of this is clear, most people in MDCs do not need their children to work in order to live, whereas this is often the case in LDCs. If we take simple steps to care for these nations, ie forgive debt, install a real ecomoy, force a living wage, grant medical care, etc, the rate will decrease, not from abortion or BC, and the growth of the pop will decrease.

Or we can do nothing, God has a way of taking care of things. Big wars (without the US Civil War the US would have more citizens than China), illnesses (SARs, flu, etc) and other elements (droughts, floods, etc).

[cmotherofpirl]

[url="http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2004/nov/04111106.html"]http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2004/nov/04111106.html[/url]


[url="http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2004/may/040518a.html"]http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2004/may/040518a.html[/url]

[Oik]

Iacobus, I disagree with everything you said. I am talking a environmental biology class this semester as well. I have heard both sides of the stroy over and over.
The points brought up by the overpopulation myth always seem exaggerated and still don't convince me.

[quote]I have heard things like the pop could fit in TX with 1,200 ft^2 a head, and sure maybe they can. But there are population issues. Namly, not everyone lives in Texas, and even if they did that doesn't mean land would be equaly distrubited.[/quote]

The same principle that you applied to my argument can be applied to yours. Actually, it is more plausible to try and move the world to Texas than it is to try police 6 billion people (and growing).

As a species, we have already exceeded our carrying capacity. They funny thing is that since then, scientists have been frantic to figure our just what exactly our CC really is.

[quote]If we take simple steps to care for these nations, ie forgive debt, install a real ecomoy, force a living wage, grant medical care, etc, the rate will decrease, not from abortion or BC, and the growth of the pop will decrease.[/quote]

Unfortunately, this will not happen. This is the only answer.

Also, who is to say that it is not God's will for the world's population to be the size it is? Who said God wants the world population to decrease?

I my self plan on having as many children as God calls me to have.

[Iacobus]

I plan on having as many kids as God wants me to have and right now I don't think that is more than 2. I would go nuts witht more than that, lol.

[Guest Aluigi]

with modern technology we can now produce more food on less land than ever before. the "population bomb" theory always failed to account for the fact that as our population increases, so does our technology. the world can fit and sustain tons and tons and tons of new people, there is room.

[Guest Aluigi]

the only morally just way the population would decrease is if less people got married. otherwise, let it keep increasing there is room.