Don John of Austria Posted December 3, 2004 Posted December 3, 2004 [quote]This 'gateway' effect isn't limited to drugs. Pot is as much a gateway to hard drugs (narcotics, hallucinogenics) as D&D is a gateway to paganism. I know Christians who play D&D with other Christians and they've never come close to becoming (or even acting) pagan. On the other hand, I know Christians who played D&D with non-Christians and it gradually made them non-Christian as well. The game (or the drug) is not the cause, but it's the subcultures surrounding it that influence the directions one takes. [/quote] WOW I have never met anybody who drifted away from Christianity because of D&D and I have played D&D since 1981, I have known a LOT of gamers, they all pretty much stay in the area theywere already in although I have known some people who where nothing before D&D to join Catholicism, D&D is a Game, Pot is a mind altering substance ( and a mutagen) they are hardly analgous, comparing D&D players to hard core scrabble players would be a more apt analogy.
KnightoftheImmaculate1 Posted December 3, 2004 Posted December 3, 2004 did all of you know that drugs are directly related with Satan and that he uses them to enslave people into his service? Jesse ROmero gave a talk at a STuebenville confrence and spoke about how drugs led men who are now convicted serial rapists, murderers, etc. to the service of Satan and are the means Satan used to keep them in his grip.
Mary's Knight, La Posted December 3, 2004 Posted December 3, 2004 to follow up on KnightoftheImmaculate1 Fr. Corapi mentioned knowing of drug sellers to get shipments cursed by satan worshipers, and such. Now having read/heard that, if you continue to smoke pot you are knowingly placing yourself in spiritual danger how does that reconcile with the act of contrition "to sin no more and avoild near occasion of sin". Problem solved. Now I dont expect anyone who reads this post to never smoke pot again however, if you do so at least you know what you're doing. now on for some musings: I'm not sure if "getting a light buzz" would classify as morally sinful however, once you become addicted to either the marijuana itself or even the light buzz you have sinned. How is giving yourself the opportunity to become addicted different from giving yourself the opportunity to suffer spiritual harm? also about saying it's not physically addictive just phsychologically, with the tight interweaving of chemistry and psychology I think your claim is shakey at best. aside from those points however, i must agree with Ironmonk in that i cannot find grounds for "a light buzz" to be graver matter, than my having two beers all other things (such as laws) being equal. thank you for bringing this up though, it's a really interesting question and not as catholic v/s non-catholic as most posts in the debate table are.
1337 k4th0l1x0r Posted December 3, 2004 Posted December 3, 2004 [quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Dec 2 2004, 07:01 PM'] WOW I have never met anybody who drifted away from Christianity because of D&D and I have played D&D since 1981, I have known a LOT of gamers, they all pretty much stay in the area theywere already in although I have known some people who where nothing before D&D to join Catholicism, D&D is a Game, Pot is a mind altering substance ( and a mutagen) they are hardly analgous, comparing D&D players to hard core scrabble players would be a more apt analogy. [/quote] My point wasn't that D&D caused people to become non-Christian; in fact, it was quite the opposite. My point is that the group with which you do certain activities can be the influence. The activity that gets you involved with the group may be completely dissimilar to the harmful (or sometimes good) effect. If you played D&D with a group of Catholic gamers and a non-Catholic joined your group, him eventually converting would not be a direct result of D&D, but is a result of being around your group. D&D simply got him with that group. I in fact have no problem whatsoever with D&D or any other roleplaying game. I've tried playing them a few times but could never really get into them. I don't want this thread getting off topic. I just tried to pick a different example besides marijuana. The parallel isn't perfect, but saying marijuana invariably leads to hard drugs is flawed because most of the time the social aspects of drug culture aren't considered. The most common argument is that after a long time marijuana users have to go to something harder to get high, but if this were true, then why would they still keep smoking it?
Guest Posted December 3, 2004 Posted December 3, 2004 stilllllllllll God created marijuana so that says alot right there dont pass judgent on someone who uses something that God created
jasJis Posted December 3, 2004 Posted December 3, 2004 [quote name='Delivery Boy' date='Dec 3 2004, 03:34 AM'] stilllllllllll God created marijuana so that says alot right there dont pass judgent on someone who uses something that God created [/quote] God also created the opuium in poppies... What's your point? A couple of recent studies, the latest from Germany I think, shows that pot smoking teens are 50 times more likely to develp schizophrenia than non-pot smokers. Studies also have shown that pot smoking teens are significantly more likely to develop other serious psychosis as adults. Alcohol's effects are significantly different than pot. It's effects socially are also significantly different when you consider it's pervasive use as a social "lubricant". Anything can be abused in a manner that was not intended by God. Alchohol can be abused. The fact that alcohol has been a problem for certain people for thousands of years does not provide justification to allow abuse of marijuana. Marijuana was not created by God so people could get stoned and eat chocolate chip cookies. What about hemp? What about the effects of THC that lowers the pressure in eyes for glaucoma victims? What about the effects of pot to quell nausea in persons undergoing cancer treatments? Truthfully, recreational abuse of pot is a grave sin. It does serve as a gateway to illegal actions and other drug abuse. Pot abuse is why society is resistive to it's legitimate use as a medicine. Face the truth. Most people are using the legal pot for medicine movement so they can grow it in their backyard and get stoned. Recreational pot use actually serves to make it difficult for persons to obtain and use it for legitimate medical purposes. I smoked pot for more years than most of you phatmassers have even been out of diapers. I quit because my wife didn't like me smoking pot. I never felt it caused any serious problem for me personally (can't say the same for all of my friends!). Not until I'd stopped for more than 5 years did I fully percieve what it as done to me and my friends. Ancedotal claims that it isn't a problem are myopic at best and are essentially ignorant. There are legitimate reasons why the vast majority of societies do not accept or condone pot smoking and have not incorporated it within it's social framework like alcohol. Continued recreational use of pot contributes to the negative effects on society and hinders the legitimate and beneficial use of mariuana for those who may need it.
God Conquers Posted December 3, 2004 Posted December 3, 2004 Great post jasjis! .... man I say that alot.
ironmonk Posted December 3, 2004 Posted December 3, 2004 [quote name='Delivery Boy' date='Dec 3 2004, 05:34 AM'] stilllllllllll God created marijuana so that says alot right there dont pass judgent on someone who uses something that God created [/quote] God created HIV... So that says alot right there God created Volcanos, Earthquakes, and Hurricanes... So that says alot right there God created Satan... So that says alot right there Dude... that is the dumbest pot head argument out there. Stop smoking the stuff and stop hanging out with people that do... they will use you... If it's [b]legal and[/b] used [b]moderately [/b]or for something like [b]glocoma[/b], then it's not a sin... but it's not good. Someone in America using it, typically are the ones who burn out. Since it's illegal, by them purchasing it, they support crime, murder, trafficing of human slaves, etc... These people are low lifes. They take advantage of the weak and the poor. They deserve to be locked up for a long time. I think penalties for being caught with pot are to soft. People should be find at least $25,000 for each offense. People would stop smoking it if it was that severe. Pot opens the doorway to other drugs when abused (it's far to easy to abuse it - in america it's illegal, therefore should not be tolerated)... harder drugs. These people that buy it, support people that push it on kids. Yes they have issues, but they need to get some sense knocked into their heads.
Don John of Austria Posted December 3, 2004 Posted December 3, 2004 I personally support flogging, in the public square. I'm not joking, flogging is a great punishment, stocks arn't so bad either. I think we need a return to corpral punishment, but of course I also think when your punishment has been concluded it should be over with, once ou have paid you debt is paid and there should be no further penelties of any kind. Still if you gave people say 20 lashes on the bare back in public for possesing pot then peple would think a lot more about the suffering they cause others.
God Conquers Posted December 3, 2004 Posted December 3, 2004 Or to spend a day or two in the stocks... it's really no more "public" than being carted off to jail. Today: "Where's Bill?" "in prison" Tommorow?: "Where's Bill?" "In the stocks" A person ain't gonna commit much more crime after that kind of experience. Fear of punishment is a great motivater.
Don John of Austria Posted December 3, 2004 Posted December 3, 2004 hey like I said stocks are fine too.
Guest Posted December 3, 2004 Posted December 3, 2004 (edited) [quote name='ironmonk' date='Dec 3 2004, 10:44 AM'] [QUOTE]Dude... that is the dumbest pot head argument out there. Stop smoking the stuff and stop hanging out with people that do... they will use you... [/QUOTE] lol dude i dont even smoke like that i smoke very rarely......i'd rather have a few beers 99 days out of a 100 im jus sayen, like you said, if it were legal and used moderatly its not a sin even the bible defends it....peace n love brother Edited December 3, 2004 by Guest
Guest Posted December 3, 2004 Posted December 3, 2004 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Dec 3 2004, 10:44 AM'] God created HIV... So that says alot right there God created Volcanos, Earthquakes, and Hurricanes... So that says alot right there God created Satan... So that says alot right there Dude... that is the dumbest pot head argument out there. Stop smoking the stuff and stop hanging out with people that do... they will use you... If it's [b]legal and[/b] used [b]moderately [/b]or for something like [b]glocoma[/b], then it's not a sin... but it's not good. Someone in America using it, typically are the ones who burn out. Since it's illegal, by them purchasing it, they support crime, murder, trafficing of human slaves, etc... These people are low lifes. They take advantage of the weak and the poor. They deserve to be locked up for a long time. I think penalties for being caught with pot are to soft. People should be find at least $25,000 for each offense. People would stop smoking it if it was that severe. Pot opens the doorway to other drugs when abused (it's far to easy to abuse it - in america it's illegal, therefore should not be tolerated)... harder drugs. These people that buy it, support people that push it on kids. Yes they have issues, but they need to get some sense knocked into their heads. [/quote] i agree with everything ur sayen i used to just smoke blunts to get stoned to the point i was jus blazedddd now thats a sin right there but now if i choze to smoke, it would be a little joint and only for the purpose to attain a slight high........i would then proceed to play video games, watch a awsome movie, or listen to some awsome music.......but like i said, i dont rarely ever smoke now'a days.....but yes, i agree, pot is a very dangerous drug, becuz most of the people useing it are abuseing it and alot are letting it be a gateway drug to harder stuff that in time, is gonna destroy there lifes...
toledo_jesus Posted December 3, 2004 Posted December 3, 2004 marijuana use is sinful. It is not alcohol. it is not comparable to alcohol. take a drugs and behavior course and learn about the physiological and psychological effects and the mechanisms of action. Smoking 'a little joint' to get 'a little high' is as sinful as drinking to the point of drunkenness. You should not do it.
Guest Posted December 3, 2004 Posted December 3, 2004 [quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Dec 3 2004, 03:47 PM'] marijuana use is sinful. It is not alcohol. it is not comparable to alcohol. take a drugs and behavior course and learn about the physiological and psychological effects and the mechanisms of action. Smoking 'a little joint' to get 'a little high' is as sinful as drinking to the point of drunkenness. You should not do it. [/quote] no disrespect but i gotta disagree with you by bible terms, marijuana is a food paul clearly states, that the one who choozes to eat should not hate the one who choozes to abstain....and the one who abstains should not condem the one who chooses to eat............ in your defense though.....paul says that if one considers someting sinful, then yes its a sin to them...........and if by me eating, causes my brother to sin, then i have sined also.......... but bottom line.....if i choose to use marijuana moderatly, then for me this is not a sin, as long as im not causeing my brother to fall......
1337 k4th0l1x0r Posted December 3, 2004 Posted December 3, 2004 [quote name='Delivery Boy' date='Dec 3 2004, 03:40 PM'] i agree with everything ur sayen i used to just smoke blunts to get stoned to the point i was jus blazedddd now thats a sin right there but now if i choze to smoke, it would be a little joint and only for the purpose to attain a slight high........i would then proceed to play video games, watch a awsome movie, or listen to some awsome music.......but like i said, i dont rarely ever smoke now'a days.....but yes, i agree, pot is a very dangerous drug, becuz most of the people useing it are abuseing it and alot are letting it be a gateway drug to harder stuff that in time, is gonna destroy there lifes... [/quote] It's like when I was under 21 I'd drink to get absolutely blitzed. I didn't do it often, but whenever I did drink, I'd never stop at just a light buzz. Nowadays I'll have a drink or two in the evening and stop at that. It helps me relax and there's nothing wrong with that. As the priest told us in his homily last Sunday, "we're not puritans." We can enjoy alcohol and tobacco as long as it doesn't become an addiction.
crusader1234 Posted December 3, 2004 Posted December 3, 2004 Studies have actually shown that the vast majority of people that smoke pot do not go onto harder drugs..
Ash Wednesday Posted December 3, 2004 Posted December 3, 2004 *snort* So y'all mean to tell me that if I went to Amsterdam, where pot is legal and lit up a recreational joint, I would not be sinning? By the way, I light up in my bedroom every once in a while......... .....some candles and incense. I've never touched pot, though I have to admit it has piqued my curiousity before, but was always wary of bothering to find out. Not only because of whether or not it's a sin, but because I've always been of the impression that pot makes people stupid.
Guest Posted December 3, 2004 Posted December 3, 2004 [quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Dec 3 2004, 06:39 PM'] I've never touched pot, though I have to admit it has piqued my curiousity before, but was always wary of bothering to find out. Not only because of whether or not it's a sin, but because I've always been of the impression that pot makes people stupid. [/quote] and dont ever start either i would never encourage someone to smoke pot that is awsome you have never done it drugs suckkk and yes, they do make people stupid
Recommended Posts