The Homosexual Agenda

[spathariossa]

I'd classify this as mildly amusing. IMHO it made fun of homosexuals more than it did Christian conservatives. The stereotypes with stylists and personal trainers and cell phones...wow...

Not that this made it any less amusing. I'm just not easily amused these days...

[ironmonk]

[quote name='hyperdulia again' date='Dec 31 2004, 01:34 AM'] If this is offensive, someone can remove it, but a genuinely orthodox priest (the one who is the earthly reason for my, and Jon's, chastity) sent it to me. It made me laugh, but then again I have the sense of humor of dimwitted fourteen yearold .

[url="http://www.bettybowers.com/homoagenda.html"]http://www.bettybowers.com/homoagenda.html[/url] [/quote]
The site is mocking Baptists and other people who claim the Christian name.

It's a liberal site.
[url="http://www.bettybowers.com/"]http://www.bettybowers.com/[/url]

God Bless,
ironmonk

[ironmonk]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Jan 4 2005, 10:55 PM'] The site is mocking Baptists and other people who claim the Christian name.

It's a liberal site.
[url="http://www.bettybowers.com/"]http://www.bettybowers.com/[/url]

God Bless,
ironmonk [/quote]
The whois...


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[Iacobus]

"If you can't laugh at yourself, life can be well too long."

BTW, Ironmonk, I have seen that site and sites like it before and they do poiint out some problems. SOME Christians, Catholics too, have a hard time dividing the sin and the sinner, esp when it comes to homosexuality. We tend to get most upset when others do wrong something that we oursleves do it as well.

[Socrates]

I didn't bother to look at the site in question, and doubt I'd find it amusing. The whole "gay" agenda seems to have saturated our culture.

I find it disturbing that phatmassers are identifying themselves (almost proudly, it seems) as "Catholic and homosexual."
"Catholic and homosexual" is a contradiction in terms. Homosexuals are among those St. Paul says will not inherit the Kingdom.

It is a shame that Catholics should proclaim this hideous sin as their identity.
"I am Catholic and an adulterer."
"I am Catholic and a murderer."
"I am Catholic and a liar."

Get my point?

If one struggles with temptation in this regard, he should pray for deliverance from and distance himself from this sin, not use it to label and define himself!

This is the language of "gay rights." It reminds me of that ex-governor of New Jersey who after being caught in a homosexual relationship with a male subordinate, declared, "I am a gay American," as if this was somehow patriotic and enobling.

Someone in a column I read pointed out that if he had offered a pretty woman a high-paying position for having adulterous sex with her, he'd be just considered a creep, not a victim. Why doesn't he say "I'm a lying American"?

Think about it.

[Iacobus]

Those who said they are Catholic and homosexual can say that. Someone posted that "he has deep rooted SSA, however, as a Catholic he is called to ignore these feelings. Nevertheless, they exist." The popular usage of the word would label him a homosexual.

I once had a problem with lust, and while I did not use it to define myself, other could have used it. But at the same time I was Catholic. I was unable, short of removing parts of my brain and/or other organs, fully stop the lust. Yet, I am called to ignore it and not act on it more, not to find a way to kill my "sex drive." During the time when I was working on mastering myself there were times when you could say I acted on lust, thus I was lustful. However, I did go confess the lust and the actions. All the while I was still Catholic.

Admitting my sins helps me remain humble. Try it.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Jan 4 2005, 11:16 PM'] I didn't bother to look at the site in question, and doubt I'd find it amusing. The whole "gay" agenda seems to have saturated our culture.

I find it disturbing that phatmassers are identifying themselves (almost proudly, it seems) as "Catholic and homosexual."
"Catholic and homosexual" is a contradiction in terms. Homosexuals are among those St. Paul says will not inherit the Kingdom.

It is a shame that Catholics should proclaim this hideous sin as their identity.
"I am Catholic and an adulterer."
"I am Catholic and a murderer."
"I am Catholic and a liar."

Get my point?

If one struggles with temptation in this regard, he should pray for deliverance from and distance himself from this sin, not use it to label and define himself!

This is the language of "gay rights." It reminds me of that ex-governor of New Jersey who after being caught in a homosexual relationship with a male subordinate, declared, "I am a gay American," as if this was somehow patriotic and enobling.

Someone in a column I read pointed out that if he had offered a pretty woman a high-paying position for having adulterous sex with her, he'd be just considered a creep, not a victim. Why doesn't he say "I'm a lying American"?

Think about it. [/quote]
People with same sex attraction are already protected under the Americans With Disabilities Act because same sex attraction is a disorder... of course the extreme left want you to think nothing is wrong with practicing it.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[hyperdulia again]

Ironmonk. I am not disabled or diseased. In fact, I'm not even disordered. Not in anymore so than anyone with an inclination (I'm starting to prefer the word aspiration btw) towards anything else Holy Church has in her wisdom judged sinful.

The list was funny.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Jan 4 2005, 07:16 PM'] I find it disturbing that phatmassers are identifying themselves (almost proudly, it seems) as "Catholic and homosexual."
"Catholic and homosexual" is a contradiction in terms. Homosexuals are among those St. Paul says will not inherit the Kingdom.

It is a shame that Catholics should proclaim this hideous sin as their identity.
"I am Catholic and an adulterer."
"I am Catholic and a murderer."
"I am Catholic and a liar."

Get my point?

If one struggles with temptation in this regard, he should pray for deliverance from and distance himself from this sin, not use it to label and define himself! [/quote]
most of the people here who say they are "homosexual and Catholic" struggle very much with their ssa (same sex attractions)...you have not been here as long and may not know the struggles that they have shared publicly on this forum...i find your post pretty judgemental

[spathariossa]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Jan 4 2005, 09:16 PM'] I didn't bother to look at the site in question, and doubt I'd find it amusing. The whole "gay" agenda seems to have saturated our culture.

I find it disturbing that phatmassers are identifying themselves (almost proudly, it seems) as "Catholic and homosexual."
"Catholic and homosexual" is a contradiction in terms. Homosexuals are among those St. Paul says will not inherit the Kingdom.

It is a shame that Catholics should proclaim this hideous sin as their identity.
"I am Catholic and an adulterer."
"I am Catholic and a murderer."
"I am Catholic and a liar."

Get my point?

If one struggles with temptation in this regard, he should pray for deliverance from and distance himself from this sin, not use it to label and define himself!

This is the language of "gay rights." It reminds me of that ex-governor of New Jersey who after being caught in a homosexual relationship with a male subordinate, declared, "I am a gay American," as if this was somehow patriotic and enobling.

Someone in a column I read pointed out that if he had offered a pretty woman a high-paying position for having adulterous sex with her, he'd be just considered a creep, not a victim. Why doesn't he say "I'm a lying American"?

Think about it. [/quote]
It actually isn't the same at all. Someone who is Catholic and a homosexual (ie experiencing SSA) hasn't necessarily commited any sin whatsoever. Murder is a sin. Adultery is a sin. Lying is a sin. Experiencing SSA is not. That post was hateful and woefully uninformed.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='hyperdulia again' date='Jan 5 2005, 01:41 AM'] Ironmonk. I am not disabled or diseased. In fact, I'm not even disordered. Not in anymore so than anyone with an inclination (I'm starting to prefer the word aspiration btw) towards anything else Holy Church has in her wisdom judged sinful.

The list was funny. [/quote]
Sorry... but same sex attraction by definition is a disorder. Lusting after women is a disorder. Take the chip off the shoulder bro.


[url="http://www.moraltruth.com/mtbbs/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=51"]http://www.moraltruth.com/mtbbs/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=51[/url]



God Bless,
ironmonk

[spathariossa]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Jan 5 2005, 02:08 PM'] Sorry... but same sex attraction by definition is a disorder. Lusting after women is a disorder. Take the chip off the shoulder bro.


[url="http://www.moraltruth.com/mtbbs/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=51"]http://www.moraltruth.com/mtbbs/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=51[/url]



God Bless,
ironmonk [/quote]
This website you've linked to is a bunch of nonsense. \

[quote]If the emotional and developmental needs of each child are properly met by both family and peers, the development of same-sex attraction is very unlikely. Children need affection, praise and acceptance by each parent, by siblings and by peers. Such social and family situations, however, are not always easily established and the needs of children are not always readily identifiable. Some parents may be struggling with their own trials and be unable to provide the attention and support their children require. Sometimes parents work very hard but the particular personality of the child makes support and nurture more difficult. Some parents see incipient signs, seek professional assistance and advice, and are given inadequate, and in some cases, erroneous advice.

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual IV (APA 1994[50]) of the American Psychiatric Association has defined Gender Identity Disorder (GID) in children as a strong, persistent cross gender identification, a discomfort with one's own sex, and a preference for cross sex roles in play or in fantasies. Some researchers (Friedman 1988, Phillips, 1992[51]) have identified another less pronounced syndrome in boys -- chronic feelings of unmasculinity. These boys, while not engaging in any cross sex play or fantasies, feel profoundly inadequate in their masculinity and have an almost phobic reaction to rough and tumble play in early childhood often accompanied by a strong dislike of team sports. Several studies have shown that children with Gender Identity Disorder and boys with chronic juvenile unmasculinity are at-risk for same-sex attraction in adolescence. (Newman 1976; Zucker 1995; Harry 1989[52])

Early identification (Hadden 1967[53]) and proper professional intervention, if supported by parents, can often overcome the gender identity disorder. (Rekers 1974[54]; Newman 1976) Unfortunately, many parents who report these concerns to their pediatricians are told not to worry about them. In some cases the symptoms and parental concerns may appear to lessen when the child enters the second or third grade, but unless adequately dealt with, the symptoms may reappear at puberty as intense, same-sex attraction. This attraction appears to be the result of a failure to identify positively with one's own sex.

It is important that those involved in child care and education become aware of the signs of gender identity disorder and chronic juvenile unmasculinity and have access the resources available to find appropriate help for these children. (Bradley 1998; Brown 1963[55]; Acosta 1975[56]) Once convinced that same-sex attraction is not a genetically determined disorder, one is able to hope for prevention and a therapeutic model to greatly mitigate, if not eliminate, same-sex attractions. [/quote]

This whole section is incorrect. GID has nothing to do with homosexuality. Furthermore, GID is incurable. There is not a single reputable psychiatrist in the US who would claim to be able to cure GID. Therapy can't rid someone of GID anymore than it could rid someone of schizophrenia.

[cmotherofpirl]

You all have good points.

One should not define oneself in terms of an action or a feeling. Its like someone who was sexually abused forever defining themselves as victim, or someone who has been sober for 20 years still defining themselves as an alcoholic. I much prefer people to not define themselves as homosexual either, I think SSA is a better description, but that is personal choice.
I don't go around identifying myself as Catholic and lustful, even though Mel Gibson has that effect on me.

Please get off the hateful bit, nobody here is being hateful, if they were they would be edited.

The Church says homosexuality is a disorder, so there is nothing wrong with using that term. It is definitely preferrable to disease [ depending on how you use the word disease]

[spathariossa]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jan 5 2005, 02:32 PM'] You all have good points.

One should not define oneself in terms of an action or a feeling. Its like someone who was sexually abused forever defining themselves as victim, or someone who has been sober for 20 years still defining themselves as an alcoholic. I much prefer people to not define themselves as homosexual either, I think SSA is a better description, but that is personal choice.
I don't go around identifying myself as Catholic and lustful, even though Mel Gibson has that effect on me.

Please get off the hateful bit, nobody here is being hateful, if they were they would be edited.

The Church says homosexuality is a disorder, so there is nothing wrong with using that term. It is definitely preferrable to disease [ depending on how you use the word disease] [/quote]
You do know that AA requires you to identify as a recovering alcoholic/alcoholic forever right?

[Apotheoun]

The homosexual inclination is of course a disorder of the will, and if the condition perdures over time, it can be described as a pathological condition, as the Church's Magisterium declared nearly 30 years ago:

[quote name='Persona Humana' date=' no. 8']    At the present time there are those who, basing themselves on observations in the psychological order, have begun to judge indulgently, and even to excuse completely, homosexual relations between certain people. This they do in opposition to the constant teaching of the Magisterium and to the moral sense of the Christian people.
    A distinction is drawn, and it seems with some reason, between homosexuals whose tendency comes from a false education, from a lack of normal sexual development, from habit, from bad example, or from other similar causes, and is transitory or at least not incurable; and homosexuals who are definitively such because of some kind of innate instinct or a [i]pathological constitution[/i] judged to be incurable.
    In regard to this second category of subjects, some people conclude that their tendency is so natural that it justifies in their case homosexual relations within a sincere communion of life and love analogous to marriage, in so far as such homosexuals feel incapable of enduring a solitary life.
    In the pastoral field, these homosexuals must certainly be treated with understanding and sustained in the hope of overcoming their personal difficulties and their inability to fit into society. Their culpability will be judged with prudence. But no pastoral method can be employed which would give moral justification to these acts on the grounds that they would be consonant with the condition of such people. For according to the objective moral order, homosexual relations are acts which lack an essential and indispensable finality. In Sacred Scripture they are condemned as a serious depravity and even presented as the sad consequence of rejecting God.  This judgment of Scripture does not of course permit us to conclude that all those who suffer from this anomaly are personally responsible for it, but it does attest to the fact that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered and can in no case be approved of.[/quote]

In 1987 the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, noting that some people had misinterpreted the 1975 declaration [u]Persona Humana[/u], stated the following about the homosexual condition:

[quote name='Homosexualitatis Problema' date=' no. 3']    Explicit treatment of the problem was given in this Congregation's "Declaration on Certain Questions Concerning Sexual Ethics" of December 29, 1975. That document stressed the duty of trying to understand the homosexual condition and noted that culpability for homosexual acts should only be judged with prudence. At the same time the Congregation took note of the distinction commonly drawn between the homosexual condition or tendency and individual homosexual actions. These were described as deprived of their essential and indispensable finality, as being "intrinsically disordered," and able in no case to be approved of (cf. n. 8, $4).
    [i]In the discussion which followed the publication of the Declaration, however, an overly benign interpretation was given to the homosexual condition itself, some going so far as to call it neutral, or even good. Although the particular inclination of the homosexual person is not a sin, it is a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil; and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder[/i].
    Therefore special concern and pastoral attention should be directed toward those who have this condition, lest they be led to believe that the living out of this orientation in homosexual activity is a morally acceptable option. It is not.[/quote]

Clearly, as a disordered inclination the homosexual condition is not a benign syndrome, and so it must not be presented as morally [i]neutral[/i], or worse still as [i]good[/i] or [i]natural[/i]. Therefore, no one should promote the false idea that this disordered condition is normal.

Moreover, the homosexual inclination, like all other disordered inclinations, is a result of the fall of Adam from grace, and as such it is a relative absence of the good in the will of the creature. In other words, it is not a positive existing thing, i.e., it is not an ontological reality, and therefore no one should try to make it an identifying characteristic of the human person, or try to establish it as a basis for "rights" within civil law. Human beings are not to be identified ontologically with any concupiscential disorder, and so no one [i]is[/i] a homosexual.

God bless,
Todd