Irish National Sovereignty

[Noel's angel]

in a sense, yes. northern ireland is also part of that olympic team, however it is often left off, for some reason. technically the team should ALWAYS be known as Great Britain and Northern Ireland

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='conservativecatholic' date='Jan 3 2005, 09:25 PM'] As long as N. Ireland is predominantly Anglican, it will never reunite with the Catholic republic. Let's be optimistic though. If the entire Northern Irish population joins Phatmass, they may find the light and convert to Christ's Church of Catholicism! 

By the way, I have a question. Is N. Ireland under the rule of England?And are Scotland and Wales independent countries?

Thanks! [/quote]
Catholics (~40%) are the most numerous, then Presbyterians (~20%), then Anglicans (~15%). Presbyterians and Anglicans are almost to a man (80%+) loyalist, and the majority (~65%) of catholics are republican. Under democratic elections in N.I., the electorate generally votes to retain it's links with the rest of the United Kingdom.

And as an Englishman, it pains me to see Ireland hug itself to the atheist corrupt EU by giving up it's power (I was amazed it gave up it's currency, even the U.K. didn't go that far). I happen to like the people, after all, I am close (I'm not Anglo-Saxon, i'm Norman-Celt)

Edited January 7, 2005 by RandomProddy

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='Aluigi' date='Dec 31 2004, 09:22 AM'] if you've ever read the Irish Constitution, you know a big part of it is the national sovereignty of Ireland.   [/quote]

The Irish Constitution has been altered and it's explicit claim to all of the territory of Ireland has been removed. [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Friday_Agreement"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Friday_Agreement[/url]

[quote]By the way, I have a question. Is N. Ireland under the rule of England? And are Scotland and Wales independent countries?[/quote]

England does not rule Northern Ireland. The U.K. rules itself with "guidance" (meddling) from the EU, and parts of the U.K. (Scotland and Wales) have some leeway in what powers they have. Northern Ireland used to have it's own powers but they were suspended after it was found that the IRA had infiltrated parts of the N.I. government.

Scotland and Wales are to a certain extent, self-governing (for example, scotland can vary it's taxes to a certain amount but neither Wales nor Scotland can have it's own armies, navies or air forces). However, much or the culture is preserved to large amounts, for example in the British Army you have regiments like the Irish Guards, the Black Watch (almost totally Scottish, not, as many Americans thought, African-American )

Edited January 7, 2005 by RandomProddy

[Phatmasser777]

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='Jan 3 2005, 09:49 AM'] I would ask people to consider the work of Republican movements such as the IRA and do not see them as the innocent party all the time.

I would just urge people here on Phatmass to consider what various Republican movements have done to try to get a United Ireland and see that there methods were wrong. I do not know what rubbish the media feed you all, but i say, if you want to know what the situation is really like, come over here and see for yourself, rather than making presumptions. [/quote]
If it wasnt for the IRA(Provos), Catholics in the six counties would still be repressed by the unionist scum. If the Provos didnt split from the Officials in 1969, and fight an armed struggle against the imperialistic britain and loyalist drones, The Six counties would not be where they are today, there would be no peace-process (which could end soon, yet again to stupid and inconcievable demands), Catholics would still have no vote, or as it later came, no "One-Man-One-Vote," no equal employment oppurtunities (which stills exists in parts), they wouldnt be able to have Catholic Parades, like the St. Paddies, which was banned under the Unionist GOV.

I Would urge people NOT to listen to ignorance or news stories, but get some books, lots and lots of books, Ive read over 15 so far on the situation, from Unionist to Catholic to US-Supporters to Non-Supporters, it isnt as simple as people put it, or is a simple 'Bombing Chart Campaign' equipped enough to give any real insight.

[b]Freedom Then Peace! - Tiocfaidh ar Lá[/b]

[Phatmasser777]

[quote name='conservativecatholic' date='Jan 3 2005, 02:25 PM'] As long as N. Ireland is predominantly Anglican, it will never reunite with the Catholic republic. Let's be optimistic though. If the entire Northern Irish population joins Phatmass, they may find the light and convert to Christ's Church of Catholicism!

By the way, I have a question. Is N. Ireland under the rule of England?And are Scotland and Wales independent countries?

Thanks! [/quote]
Unionists are falling into the minority now 1970's/80's Baby boom THANKYOU SO MUCH!

[Phatmasser777]

[quote name='RandomProddy' date='Jan 7 2005, 05:04 PM']
The Irish Constitution has been altered and it's explicit claim to all of the territory of Ireland has been removed. [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Friday_Agreement"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Friday_Agreement[/url] [/quote]
Doesnt matter, the south is an ILLEGITIMATE STATE without the North. Until the North is united with the South, there is no legitimate 26 County Republic.

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='Phatmasser777' date='Jan 8 2005, 04:11 AM'] Unionists are falling into the minority now 1970's/80's Baby boom THANKYOU SO MUCH! [/quote]
There are a sizeable number of catholics in the UK who are unionist. In fact, far from the Establisment being anti-catholic. the Education Secretary, not only being a catholic, is a member of Opus Dei.

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='Phatmasser777' date='Jan 8 2005, 04:16 AM'] Doesnt matter, the south is an ILLEGITIMATE STATE without the North. Until the North is united with the South, there is no legitimate 26 County Republic. [/quote]
Therefore 94% of people in the Republic are wrong...

[Noel's angel]

grrrrr, all these people think they know so much about something they have no idea about...

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='Jan 8 2005, 04:02 PM'] grrrrr, all these people think they know so much about something they have no idea about... [/quote]
I should point out, not only am I an english public schoolboy, my ulster-Scot heritage was definately one-sided. I make no claim to neutrality. I do admire the Irish people though

[Noel's angel]

oh! i wasnt talking about you! no, i think u made some good arguments. at least in England, u know a fair bit about whats going on over here

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='Jan 8 2005, 04:15 PM'] oh! i wasnt talking about you! no, i think u made some good arguments. at least in England, u know a fair bit about whats going on over here [/quote]


I'm a Christie, so you can guess which county i'm from

[Noel's angel]

lol, did we have a conversation about the Christies once? i think we did. they own a shop or something u said

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='Jan 8 2005, 04:20 PM'] lol, did we have a conversation about the Christies once? i think we did. they own a shop or something u said [/quote]
Nah, that was the Duffin's from Ballymoney. She was a sweet girl

Edited January 8, 2005 by RandomProddy

[Noel's angel]

i dont recall hearing about them, woops, kinda getting off topic here

[RandomProddy]

Hehe, true. I think we should leave this one alone, because obviously Phatmasser777 and the rest know more about the current situation than we do

[Noel's angel]

lol, yeah. i mean, i was just born here and have lived here all my life, i know nothing about my own country

[Guest Aluigi]

my mention of the Irish Constitution was not about any claim to the entire teritory, actually, rather about the claim to national sovereignty. that's one of it's biggest themes, the fact that Ireland now has sovereignty over itself. I am concerned it may be giving that up to the E.U.

it is my understanding that Sinn Fein is having some political success much to the shegrin of the protestants. i believe a united Ireland can happen through peaceful means, and it can happen in our lifetime.

i wouldn't call the IRA "innocent" but i also would not call most of their actions unjustified. violence is sometimes necessary, and if ever there were a just war it was a just war to fight against Catholic opression. they're one of those groups that always tries to limit their victims anyway, and at least right now I know that both sides don't arbitrarily kill. there are certain people in danger and certain people not. my dad was in the middle of a unionist bar and asked loudly "do you know what time Sunday Mass is tomarrow?". he wasn't one of the people in danger, there's a code basically adhered to by both groups.

anyway, i think peaceful means can be used to bring the six counties back, that Sinn Fein is going to win politically within our lifetime and work to bring the country back together. i just pray they don't exchange one foreign rule of london for another foreign rule in brussels.

i think it's dispicable for Ireland to disgrace its ancestors who fought so hard for a free sovereign Ireland by giving up it's power to the E.U. or by abandoning a process by which Northern Ireland would become a part of Ireland. not necessarily condoning violent means (though they can be justified, even the IRA has begun on the road to peaceful means) but the cause cannot be abandoned.

anyway, I know I don't live there, but I've been there numerous times (first machine gun i ever saw i saw when i was like 8 years old in Northern Ireland) and my dad has very close ties to it. Can I not have an opinion? I simply love Ireland and want what is best for it, and the way the E.U. is going I don't think THAT is best for it, and I never thought the division was best for it. The violence came out of the british persecution of Catholics. persecution of Catholics is way down and the violence too is way down. the IRA and DUP still kill each other every once in a while, but really the police have less power than those two groups anyway, they basically are the police. i support the peaceful means for the reunification of Ireland, but I do not support abandoning the cause for the reunification.

[Guest Aluigi]

btw, i do not claim to know as much or more than anyone that lives in Ireland and do appreciate your input.

Funny story: my aunt's a sister, she's also a bit naive. Anyway, she was in the Republic when she heard the news about the Good Friday Agreement, and she was going to the North and then would be going home in a few days. She was stopped at a British checkpoint and she asked them "what are you doing here? i thought you guys left!" lol, she apparently misunderstood the Good Friday Agreement. anyway, she was just so naive that they didn't get mad. lol.

[Noel's angel]

Aluigi, you are one of the few people who knows something about what you are talking about and you do have intersting things to say