Irish National Sovereignty

[Phatmasser777]

[quote]RandomProd: Oh, come on, it's not like we have fangs and eat babies.. [/quote]

I dont know, Ive seen a few of you ugly buggers

[Phatmasser777]

The brits have been trying to get the IRA on the same level as 9-11 and Al-Qaeda, just for the sake of US Support, but the US has a MASSIVE Irish Republican base, one that showed its true power back in 1996-97, when Clinton pretty much ignored the UK PM on inviting Sinn Fein to the US.

[Noel's angel]

by the way Phatmasser 777, the provisionals may be on an official caesefire, but that hasn't stopped them killing people. bit of a useless ceasefire then, Yes?

Edited January 12, 2005 by Noel's angel

[Noel's angel]

'Our day will come.' since when were you an Irish republican?

[Noel's angel]

Provisional IRA's history of violence

The Provisional IRA was formed in late 1969, when it split from the Marxist-inclined Official IRA. Since then, its roll-call of violence includes:

March 1971: Attack at Ligoniel: Three soldiers killed.

July 1972: Bloody Friday. Series of blasts across Belfast. Nine killed, many more injured as 22 bombs go off.

July 1972: Ten die in bomb attack in County Derry.

October 1974: Guildford pub bombing on British mainland. Five die, 44 injured.

November 1974: Birmingham pub bombings. 19 dead, 182 injured.

December 1975: Balcombe Street siege. Four IRA gunmen take a couple hostage after a street gun battle in London, surrendering after six days.

February 1978: Firebomb at hotel in Co Down. Twelve people killed, 23 injured.

November 1978: Deputy governor of Crumlin Road prison, Albert Miles, shot dead.



Wreckage of Lord Mountbatten's boat after the IRA bomb
August 1979: Lord Mountbatten, the Queen's uncle, and three others killed by Provisional IRA bomb in County Sligo. The same day, 18 soldiers killed in bomb attack at Warrenpoint, County Down.

November 1981: Ulster Unionist MP for Belfast South, Robert Bradford, murdered.

July 1982: Two bombs in Hyde Park and Regent's Park, London. In Hyde Park, two members of the Household Cavalry and seven horses die. In Regent's Park, six soldiers from the Royal Green Jackets killed.

December 1983: Harrods bomb. Five people killed and 80 wounded in a blast during Christmas shopping at the West London department store.

October 1984: Brighton bomb. Huge blast at the Grand Hotel, during the Conservative Party conference. Five die. Among the injured: the Cabinet minister Norman Tebbit and his wife.

November 1987: Consignment of 150 tons of weapons and ammunition destined for the IRA intercepted on the French coaster Eksund.

November 1989: Enniskillen massacre. Remembrance Day parade in Enniskillen, County Fermanagh. Blast kills 11 people, injures 63.

September 1989: Deal bombing. Ten Royal Marines bandsmen are killed and 22 are injured when base in Deal, Kent, bombed.

July 1990: Ian Gow, Conservative MP for Eastbourne and former Northern Ireland minister, killed by bomb at his Sussex home.



Police clear Whitehall after the mortar attack
February 1991: Three mortar bombs launched from across Whitehall at Downing Street during a Cabinet meeting. One explodes in the garden, but nobody injured.

January 1992: Eight Protestant builders killed by a bomb on their way to work at an Army base near Omagh.

December 1992: Series of IRA bombs throughout the province culminates in a blast in east Belfast which injures 27.

March 1993: An IRA bomb hits Saturday shoppers in Warrington, Cheshire. Two children, Jonathan Ball and Tim Parry, killed.

April 1993: IRA bomb in the City of London causes £350 million of damage.

October 1993: Blast at a fish and chip shop on the Protestant Shankill Road, Belfast, kills 10 people, including two children.

February 1995: Massive bomb at Canary Wharf in east London ends the IRA ceasefire that had been running since August 1994.

[Noel's angel]

The Provisional IRA's activities have included bombings, assassinations, kidnappings, so-called 'punishment beatings', robberies and extortion. Previous targets have included the British military, the Royal Ulster Constabulary, and Loyalist militants--against whom PIRA gunmen and bombers fought a guerrilla war.

PIRA has also targeted British Government officials, Unionist politicians and civilians in both Northern Ireland and Great Britain. Many Protestant civilians were killed in secterian attacks in Northern Ireland, whilst many British civilians were killed during the IRA bombing campaign in England, which was principaly directed against civilian targets such as shops and pubs, including against civilian targets of an economic significance.

Also many Catholic civilians have been killed by PIRA in Northern Ireland for alleged "collaboration" with the British security forces (i.e. the military or RUC). The IRA has also summarily "executed" or otherwise punished suspected drug dealers and other suspected criminals in the past, sometimes after kangaroo trials. IRA members suspected of being British or Irish government informers were also executed, often after interrogation and torture and a kangaroo trial.

Members of the Garda Síochána (the Republic of Ireland's police force) have also been killed; [b]most notorious was the killing of Detective Garda Gerry McCabe, who was shot and killed after the commencement of the PIRA ceasefire.[/b]PIRA bombing campaigns have been conducted against rail and London Underground (subway) stations, pubs and shopping areas on the island of Great Britain, and a British military facility on Continental Europe.

It has recently been claimed that elements of the PIRA have been involved in a spate of bank robberies throughout the island of Ireland, allegedly to build up funds to 'pension off' PIRA members and so facilitate disbandment.

Edited January 12, 2005 by Noel's angel

[Phatmasser777]

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='Jan 12 2005, 11:46 AM'] by the way Phatmasser 777, the provisionals may be on an official caesefire, but that hasn't stopped them killing people. bit of a useless ceasefire then, Yes? [/quote]
They've killed Drug Dealers, and hardcore criminals, that was never apart of the ceasefire agreement, the Ceasefire means the IRA has decided to stop attacking British/RUC/PSNI, collaborators with the british, for the time being. Drug Dealers are outside the agreement.

[Phatmasser777]

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='Jan 12 2005, 11:49 AM'] 'Our day will come.' since when were you an Irish republican? [/quote]
Mum is Irish .

[Phatmasser777]

God I hate it when you ppl just paste a bunch of junk without a source, on this.

[url="http://irishrepublicanarmy.info/IRA.html"]http://irishrepublicanarmy.info/IRA.html[/url]

==============================================

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='Phatmasser777' date='Jan 13 2005, 07:57 AM'] They've killed Drug Dealers, and hardcore criminals, that was never apart of the ceasefire agreement, the Ceasefire means the IRA has decided to stop attacking British/RUC/PSNI, collaborators with the british, for the time being. Drug Dealers are outside the agreement. [/quote]
Ah, a classic example of a group that it it's own judge, jury and executioner. How on earth do you think that is just?

You still really didn't answer the question on why the Northern Irish people should join the Republic. For example:[list]
[*]According to Transparency International, the British government (at 11th) is less corrupt than the Irish government (at 18th). Why should a part of the UK go from being ruled by a less corrupt one to a more corrupt one?
[*]The EU, which the UK and the Republic are both part of, is often criticized as unaccountable and corrupt. Given that the UK has it's own independent currency and economic powers which the Irish government does not have, how can you be sure that the interests of Northern Ireland will be served by surrendering more power to the EU?
[/list]

[Phatmasser777]

Proddy. That dont mean nothing. Northern Ireland belongs to the South, it dont matter what the hell the people of the north(loyalists) think. The State was MADE to be a loyalist state, within a republican country, it was to be a Protestant state within the catholic country. Northern Ireland has no validicy in history, borders or geography. It was an illegal state, pushed onto the inhabitants of the land, just like Israel to the Arabs.

It doesnt matter on corruption and that, I mean COME ON, one word BLAIR, like your statement gives ANY validicy to the illegal state of Northern ireland.

[RandomProddy]

[quote]Northern Ireland belongs to the South,
[/quote]
According to international law, no.

[quote]it dont matter what the hell the people of the north(loyalists) think.[/quote]

Fascism:

a political system based on a very powerful leader, state control and extreme pride in country and race, and in which political opposition is not allowed

[quote]The State was MADE to be a loyalist state, within a republican country,[/quote]

Correction, it is part of a nation which is a constitutional monarchy. And Northern Ireland is not a state, it is a province.

[quote]Northern Ireland has no validicy in history,[/quote]

Oh yes it does. It has been doing fine for the last 80-odd years.

[quote]borders or geography.[/quote]

How about Demographic?

[quote]It was an illegal state, pushed onto the inhabitants of the land, just like Israel to the Arabs.[/quote]

Pushed on the vast majority??

[quote]It doesnt matter on corruption and that,[/quote]

I think anti-corruption should be one of the highest priorities of any government.

You content that the views of the majority on the status of their own nationhood are irrelevant. I think you are a fascist but that's just me. You seem to fit the definition.

By the way, in case you didn't know of this treaty, please read the [url="http://www.reform.org/TheReformMovement_files/article_files/Treaties/1985.htm"]Anglo-Irish Agreement 1985[/url] signed by both the British and Irish governments.

Edited January 13, 2005 by RandomProddy

[Guest Aluigi]

what is the criteria for a "corrupt" government according to Transparency International?

that is one of my issues raised on this thread-- that Ireland should be more wary of the E.U. England is going more and more to the E.U. too, it's sucking everyone in.

Northern Ireland should decide for itself. Northern Ireland should join the Republic because that's where it belongs in my humble opinion. It is time for Sinn Fein to work to convince the people of that.

Reasons the North should join the Republic:[list]
[*]The Republic is a Catholic Nation who attributes their power to Almighty God and therefore has more right to rule than any non-Catholic Nation would.
[*]The Republic protects the life of the unborn
[*]The Republic is Traditional Ireland
[*]Traditional Ireland once included the entire island
[*]The Catholics of the North have the right to be under a Catholic Country
[*]To do away with traditional Eire simply because it is no longer so is chronological snobbery
[*]It costs Great Britain too much time and money anyway
[/list]These are some of my reasons. Ireland needs to deal with its problems, but just because England might be doing better off right now doesn't mean anything. If you look at the Election map I showed, Northern Ireland is getting more and more polarized. Currently the North's popular opinion is to stay with England. Popular opinion sways with the wind and in Catholic Teaching should not be the deciding factor for governments. It appears Sinn Fein is overtaking the SDLP, so dark and light green will eventually be all dark green.

The data shows decline of Protestants in Ireland overall. It is likely to continue
[img]http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/maps/island_protestants_1861_1991.gif[/img]
That purple is on it's way light blue, that light blue is on its way dark blue, the pink doesn't seem to be changing much. Let British Norther Ireland be the pink part in the east.
Ireland will one day be a united Catholic Nation.
<decline is more likely attributed to contraceptives than to the IRA, though I'm sure fear of the IRA may have caused some to leave and maybe there were some conversions, but overall it appears to be contraceptives to me.
With the decline of Protestants and the rising of Sinn Fein, don't count the chance out yet.

Edited January 13, 2005 by Aluigi

[Guest Aluigi]

MY VISION:
[img]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-9/837215/2050.jpg[/img]



anyway, let me repost about the election results to show you why a majority of unionists means diddly squat with the political scene it's in:
DUP (hardline unionist) 107,348 (13.6%) 181,999 (22.5%)
UUP (unionist) 258,439 (32.7%) 216, 839 (26.8%)
SDLP (nationalist) 190,844 (24.1%) 169,865 (21.0%)
Sinn Féin (hardline nationalist) 126,921 (16.1%) 175,392 (21.7%)
Alliance (non-aligned) 62,972 (8.0%) 28,999 (3.6%)
Others 44,365 (5.6%) 36,739 (4.5%)

Sinn Fein is takin over SDLP. they can get another 10% at least from them within the next 5-10 years I think. that wold bring them up to 31.7%

the DUP is takin over the UUP too though, but not with as much momentum. i think they can get 5-7% within the net 5-10 years, that would bring them to 27.5%

if Sinn Fein keeps its momentum and the DUP keeps at its pace, i can see Sinn Fein as the largest political party within 10 years, and within 20 maybe they can really acheive a mandate from the people, within 30 perhaps, God willing, the return of the Six Counties to traditional Eire

Edited January 13, 2005 by Aluigi

[Noel's angel]

i cant see it happening

[Guest Aluigi]

people couldn't see Bush winning

people can't see alot of stuff happening

[Noel's angel]

yeah, but the odds are too big to overcome. There will be a powersharing Government for a long time in Northern Ireland, i cant see there being a single party government in the remotely near future

[Guest Aluigi]

with some hard work i can see it 30, 40, 50ish years... nothing is impossible with God (and protestants contracept )

[Noel's angel]

i suppose you never know what the future will hold. i think most people over here have lost a lot of hope

[Guest Aluigi]

I wish it wasn't so anti-American over there so I could go be a Sinn Fein politician and return hope to them

but I donno, it's in a swing, don't throw in the towell yet. both dark red and dark green are going up, there will be a massive power struggle in the coming years.
[img]http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/charts/polarisation_1997_2001.gif[/img]